Today, the money-saving service cuts went into effect on many routes. At this point, the TTC’s magnificent customer service efforts have not seen fit to post notices at stops on the affected routes, nor to change the posted schedules. They have managed to place small yellow stickers saying “hey, no service”, but left the old schedules in place. I don’t know if the yellow stickers are up system wide because checking that out is lots of work.
So far, the TTC’s effort consists of:
- A “good news” press release and media event stressed the service additions (almost all of which were routine seasonal changes) while omitting any mention of the service cuts.
- Updated schedule info is online, but not on schedules posted at stops.
- There are “no service” stickers on affected stops, but I don’t know how extensive this work is, especially where routes with different hours of service share the same stop.
- System maps have not been updated to show route segments with limited hours of operation.
At Broadview Station, there is no indication that 62 Mortimer and 8 Broadview no longer operate after 10pm Sundays.
On a related topic, the TTC must dust off its Service Standards and address issues on which they were silent earlier this year:
- Will the screenline of 10 riders per hour continue to be applied for future service cuts?
- Will walking distances to service be considered both as they apply to future cuts, and to reviews of the cuts that have been implemented?
- What mechanism will be used to monitor and, if justified, to reintroduce service, and what standard will apply?
Please use comments on this post to help track the degree to which missing or incorrect information about the service cuts is a system-wide problem.
And remember to tell all your friends that this is “for the greater good”.
Steve Munro 
I live in St. Paul’s just above the nexus of Annex-area cuts, there are definitely stickers.
Some major intersections (where the cut Dupont bus meets the cut Davenport bus) have flyers as well as stickers.
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Greater good my ass, this was a PR move that went horribly wrong… it was designed to appease the voters who wanted to stop the gravy train and save money yet it is going to alienate the very same people they are trying to please.
Long story short, I doubt it will be long before the cuts are fully restored, once people see that this will not work out as planned.
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I’ve seen stickers on a good number of stops along affect routes that I’ve passed over the last 2-3 weeks, but I have not seen a single notice unless it includes a service improvement. Maybe they want to save more money by reducing their paper usage? Last night when I was at Scarborough Centre Station I took a look at the timetable for the 43B and to my surprise it was already updated.
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Despite all the nonsense Ford has done in a few months as Mayor, his approval rating is still 70%! It’s mind boggling how people can still support a man who is wasting their money even though he campaigned on “stopping the gravy train.”
The Commissioners on the TTC are not the sharpest tools in the shed. They tried to spin the service cuts as “for the greater good” because buses from “underused” routes will be “reallocated” to busier routes. How exactly do you reallocate late night and evening bus from underused routes to busier routes during rush hour? Rush hour is where the demand is. It makes no sense. Gutting public transit to save $7 million doesn’t make any sense either. Surely the economic costs to the city as a result of these service cuts will be greater than $7 million.
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This is way off-topic but this Toronto Sun article states:
“the province was also pleased it was able to cut the city out of the Eglinton project entirely – the province will own the line through Metrolinx and the city will need to negotiate an operating agreement down the road.”
The last part of that statement from the article “the city will need to negotiate an operating agreement down the road” is new information to me. What does that mean for transit users? To me it looks like a separate or additional fare for Torontonians who want to use the Eglinton-Scarborough line but I am interested in insights and opinions from others.
Steve: Metrolinx has made noises about having the TTC operate the line on their behalf, but nothing prevents them from operating it completely separately, especially if they change to a technology like ICTS that would have little in common with other routes and could be completely automated. 2020 is a long way away. As for fares, who knows what our “regional” fare system will look like by then.
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I saw stickers on stops on route 80 Queensway. The route has been cut back to running between Sherway and Keele station to running between Sherway and Humber loop on Sundays and late evenings.
Before all day service came in, route 80 was interlined with route 66 Prince Edward on Sundays and provided service every 26 minutes, slightly better every 30 minutes on other days. It doesn’t seem to be interlined this time which has several interesting effects:
The service runs every 20 minutes on Sunday, the most frequent service on The Queensway.
A lot of people used the interlining to ride through before service increase won’t be able to go back to doing that.
It joins 99 Arrow Road as one of the two routes which don’t connect to a subway/RT station.
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“Last night when I was at Scarborough Centre Station I took a look at the timetable for the 43B and to my surprise it was already updated.” Meanwhile, over at Kennedy station, there were six sheets of paper taped to the glass around the 43 bus bay, all with that amateur “home-made” look, advising of the service cuts, while the posted schedule just inside still showed the old 43B schedule. Looking around the station, the windows and doors around some other bus bays were also plastered with “home-made” notices, making the whole thing look like an amatuer operation. On the other hand, the sheer number of these notices on display does show a stark contrast between Ford’s campaign promise of “no tax increases, no service cuts” and what we actually got.
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I have observed that a bus stop shared by both a reduced service bus route and an uncut bus route will have no yellow sticker to announce service cuts. If 2 routes with different service reductions share the same stop, only the lighter reductions will be disclosed.
As of Sunday 6 PM, there was no notice of 124 (Sunnybrook) or 162 (Lawrence-Donway) cuts at Lawrence Station and the posted schedules showed the old full service. At 7:30 am this morning (Monday), there were hand-written signs taped under the posted schedules at Lawrence. I think some sympathetic TTC employee wrote the signs as the notice started with the word “sorry”.
I believe there are 5 posted schedules along the 124 route (Lawrence Station, Yonge eastside stop, Mt.Pleasant, Glendon northbound stop, Sunnybrook Hospital). As of last Thursday, the Northbound Glendon College stop showed the old schedule and had no yellow sticker (as it is share by 11 Bayview which had no cuts). As of Sunday 6 pm, the Yonge Eastside stop showed the old 124 schedule but at least the stop had a yellow sticker.
As of Monday morning (7:45 am), there was no notice of 98 (Willowdale-Senlac) cuts at Sheppard-Yonge stations, and the old schedules were still posted.
However, as of Sunday morning (9 am) at York Mills station, there were both printed notices and updated posted schedules for the 122 (Graydon Hall) and 115 (Silver Hills), and the notices and posted schedules were right at the bus bays.
I wrote to Karen Stintz’s office last Wednesday about the lack of notices. Someone at her office replied they would look into my complaint.
I had noticed that the TTC had updated the route schedules by Thursday on its web site.
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The number 9 bus has stickers.
I emailed the commission concerning the way the cuts are being advertised. I noticed that since my email they did change the website comment from saying to “improve service”, to “periodic adjustments”. Still not good enough for me as these are not periodic changes.
I did not want these cuts to go through. However I looked up the history of the number 9 bus, and throughout it’s history the TTC has tried running late night service, and it has always been cut back due to low low ridership, even before the big Harris cuts.
So I wonder now if some routes just can’t support the service at certain times.
Steve: There will always be outliers in the system that have very low ridership, but the important questions are when is “low” unsupportable, and are there special considerations such as walking distances. The latter was completely ignored in this round of cuts.
By contrast, although this was portrayed as being an example of the waste of the Miller years, a very large number of Ridership Growth Strategy improvements remain in place. What the new crew has not addressed is the standard by which any service increase would be evaluated. The cynic in me might suggest that improving service is not on their radar, only more cuts.
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At least systems like OC Transpo post changes and update timetables a few weeks before the service changes, which means they actually care about customer service more than the TTC.
Also @ Darwin the 171 MOUNT DENNIS does not make a subway/rt connection.
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The TTC’s website (as of 11 AM, Monday, May 9th) still has no link to the May 11th agenda for the TTC meeting. Had to replace an old date with May_11 to get to the agenda. http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2011/May_11_2011/Agenda/index.jsp
The CHIEF GENERAL MANAGER’S REPORT for PERIODS 1 & 2 JANUARY 1 TO FEBRUARY 26, 2011 has this quote: “Ridership to the end of Period 2 (February 26) was 878,000 (-2.3%) below budget but 1,262,000 (+3.4%) above the comparable period in 2010.” A 3.4% increase in ridership, but they cut service on 42 bus routes? Great logic! I don’t see it, though!
Steve: The full agenda went online later in the day. I have an article in preparation on some of the major reports. The “obvious” answer to your question is that riding growth occurs on routes that are not being cut. Having said that, we already know at least two routes were monitored by Councillors of the affected wards who saw riding well above what the TTC claims. We subsequently learned that some of the TTC counts are up to five years old and only represent a one-day sample. Nonetheless, the Commission rammed through the cuts. This is called public consultation.
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“How exactly do you reallocate late night and evening bus from underused routes to busier routes during rush hour?”
You just schedule the bus drivers to work during rush hour rather then at night. There should be no problem assuming there are enough buses to provide the additional service.
Making sure there is enough buses is a capital budget problem. These cuts are related to the operating budget.
Steve: Having enough buses requires (a) the lead time to acquire them, (b) the garage space to hold them, and (c) the maintenance budget to keep a larger fleet in good condition. Much of this is smoke and mirrors for political purposes.
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Enough is enough. Stop crying for certain routes being cut.
When Adam Giambrone said he wanted to make all routes 30 minutes max then eventually 20 minutes, he must of being high (or drunk on something).
There are many of the routes above that had less than 10 people in each bus.
Is it worth while to keep a bus route if it has 3 people in it (plus driver)? NO.
Bus routes change over time. It if fiscally irresponsible to have many of these routes every 10-20 minutes with few people in those buses when routes like 29 and 36 are full to capacity.
29 Dufferin has been fully packed for years. 36 Finch West the same. I have take both in the past and continue to take 29 Dufferin.
Is it the Mortimer or the Cosburn bus that picks up East York Colligiate students?
Both Giambrone and Mihevc told me that they will not focus on expansion if they can’t maintain the core services.
I bet you that the 62+8 don’t carry even close to the number of passengers that the 29 Dufferin does.
We are in the hole. by the time 2012 comes the amount of money we will be in the hole will be $1,000,000,000. it is at $800M right now.
Not every route should have buses 5-10 minutes.
It is called getting an umbrella, wearing a coat when it gets cold, etc…
I rather have smaller service but good quality service than big service and shit quality service.
There seems to be a sense of entitlement. I used to live in an area where I had a stop in front of my house. That route is being affected. If I lived there today, I would just walk 800 metres to the nearest alternative.
Steve: Using 2007 stats, the most recent that have been publicly reported, the Dufferin bus carries 43,600 passengers using 28 vehicles operating 450 hours of service. That’s 1,557 per bus or 97 per bus hour. The Mortimer bus carries 2,800 passengers using 3 vehicles operating 45 hours of service. That’s 933 per bus or 62 per bus hour. The Broadview bus carries 880 passengers using 1 bus and 18 bus hours. That’s 880 per bus, or 49 per bus hour.
One big advantage Dufferin has is that there is solid demand along the route, and lots of turnover as the passengers/bus hour shows. All the same, the productivity, using these data as metrics, of the Dufferin bus is only about 50% higher than the Mortimer bus.
By comparison, the Scarborough bus carries 17,100 passengers using 15 vehicles operating 250 hours of service. That’s 1,140 per bus or 68 per bus hour, only a bit better than Mortimer. It’s easy to slag off the small routes and say “people can just walk”, but when you (a) look at the gaping holes created in parts of the network on Sunday evenings, and (b) consider how often the TTC blows on about accessibility, then walking distance is an important factor.
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These service cuts are not a very smart move.
OK, there are a very small number of bus routes that deserve to have evening service cut because there is simply no demand. Route 162 (the Bridle Path bus) is an obvious one, every time I see that bus it is nearly empty and there isn’t even all that much car traffic in that area. There are a couple other routes like this on the system which run through areas of very low density, but they are very few in number and the savings by cutting them are small.
However, most of the routes on this list are routes where there is plenty of potential demand (made obvious by heavy car traffic) but where ridership has been hurt by lousy service (generally a bus every 30 minutes). 74 Mount Pleasant is an example, the bus runs every 30 minutes outside rush hour so I rarely use it even though it runs a block from my apartment building. It is faster to walk. Cutting this sort of route creates a downward spiral effect where cutting bus service results in even lower ridership which results in more service cuts and so on.
Also the TTC has not updated the system map on the TTC website to indicate which routes no longer have evening service. This makes it hard to tell which routes have actually been cut.
Steve: It’s hard to believe that the Mt. Pleasant Streetcar ran every 6 minutes.
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I would like to point out that the 9 Bellamy bus serves residential areas for the first half of the route and industrial areas for the second half (near the Town Centre). It may be an outlier and have VERY FEW passengers past 9 PM but its the only bus that serves those areas and getting to other buses is a pain in the ass. It serves condos on Corporate Drive, Lee Centre Drive as well as the Condos around the Town Centre. It may not be the best performing route but there is a reason those condos offer a shuttle service to the mall and it’s not because they have nothing better to do.
It’s moments like this the TTC has to actually get out there and look at the routes they are cutting in order to get a sense of why they run so late to begin with and why they are there in the first place.
Continuing with the 9 Bellamy as an example, that bus basically fills a void. It goes and takes the long way around into the town centre to serve an area that would otherwise have no transit. Think about that.
In theory it makes sense to cut the route, in practice not so much because they you leave a lot of people without an easy way to get to transit. The 401, and distance away from Scarborough Centre Station (which cannot be accessed easily after the mall closes) make the 9 Bellamy a necessity… way to go TTC!
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What TTC needs to do, for ‘low ridership’ buses, is buy Community Buses (i.e. Orion II’s) and run them. The fuel savings would be the most noticeable, as from what I was told in London, they use 70% less fuel then the full size buses. There are 2 “FULL TIME” routes in London – both service the college area – that use them during the full service day, and one of the Supervisors in London, told me they reduced cost by 50% in the first year over the standard buses.
Routes like 169, 43B etc etc should be Orion IIs. That’s my 2cents.
Steve: Actually, the greatest expense for off peak service is the operator, not the bus. The TTC already owns the bus (they need it for the rush hour) and running a smaller bus for off peak service doesn’t save anything — it actually makes the fleet bigger because you have two vehicles where before you had one. You need to establish that the routes you would modify could run all day with small buses, not just late at night.
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The stickers were up for the 120 Calvington, so the boonies were covered. But the TTC website still has the old route maps; the 96F no longer exists though the individual route map that accompanies the schedule and the Ride Guide online still show it. The 96F is the only branch designation that I know of that was eliminated.
Some bus route maps have not been updated for a long time. For instance, none of the bus routes that service York U show the connecting box for Brampton Transit Zum, many still show BT connecting at Finch Station or along Highway 7 east of Weston Road which were eliminated in September 2010.
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Darwin O’Connor says:
“You just schedule the bus drivers to work during rush hour rather then at night. There should be no problem assuming there are enough buses to provide the additional service.”
This does not solve one major problem though. The TTC has a finite number of buses. These buses are operating during rush hour on the 42 routes that are being cut. You cannot move buses from underused routes to busier routes if they are being used on the underused routes at the exact same time they are needed on the busier routes. Thus, the TTC spin of reallocating service doesn’t make any sense.
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Irritated with TTC’s lack of posting about route cuts — they left out all of Eglinton’s cuts plus 32D from Eglinton W. And sounds like those weren’t the only ones.
Rather than cut services, crack down on fare evasion which = $22million loss in revenue, and they have no idea how to deal with that. Also think TTC Commission should look up “essential” in the dictionary.
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85 bus frequency should be cut losing $10 million a year on the subway to no where.
Steve: What part of the 85 would you cut? After all, we are about to replace section from Don Mills to, roughly, Kennedy with a subway line. As for the section west of Don Mills, the best service it ever has is 4 buses/hour. Not much gravy there.
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Not cut but have the bus from Sheppard to Don Mills run every 30 minutes not 15.
Steve: I think you have made your point.
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So my route has one bus every half hour and just got cut to 7pm
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Just to Clairfy Monday-Friday the schedule says their is an 85J that goes From Sheppard to Don Mills which is the same length of the subway why do we need a subway and a bus running so frequently I mean if you maybe cut one train out or something these bus cuts wouldn’t have gone through I mean I am just thinking why are the cuts so severe. Another idea would be enforce bylaws and fare evasion that way people could probably be happy and have the service stay before these unjust cuts
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“Steve: Metrolinx has made noises about having the TTC operate the line on their behalf, but nothing prevents them from operating it completely separately, especially if they change to a technology like ICTS that would have little in common with other routes and could be completely automated. 2020 is a long way away. As for fares, who knows what our “regional” fare system will look like by then.”
Don’t forget that ICTS (now known as Innovia ART 300 / MkIII by the way) operation and maintenance could very well be outsourced to Bombardier. It’s been done with other ART systems Bombardier has built. The only thing those trains may end up having is a TTC sticker, if that. A fully automated line with track intrusion detection doesn’t require much staff.
This is all a game anyway. From the beginning, Metrolinx wanted what they called “AGT technology” for this regional route, so don’t lay it all at Ford’s feet.
Steve: I think that Metrolinx took advantage of the situation to reset the design back to their original preference. I just wish they would be more honest and open about their intent.
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I’ve seen some TTC trucks actually replacing whole schedules downtown, so there must be some places where they’re making an effort to put in accurate information.
That said, 14 has a sticker.
I overheard a conversation between two TTC employees, one a bus driver, the other a subway operator. Neither were very impressed by the “lot of cuts” coming, and the driver expressed interest in getting subway training. I wonder how widely these cuts affect morale among employees.
Steve: The work also seems to be hit-and-miss, possibly because it may be organized by route rather than by location. At Broadview Station, we now have a service change notice and a new schedule for 62 Mortimer, but not for 8 Broadview (as of May 10 at about 9 pm). None of the schedules at Eglinton Station has been updated even many of the routes there (Leaside, Leslie, Mt. Pleasant North, Avenue Road, Avenue Road North and Eglinton West) are affected.
As for morale, the real question will be what improvements are made in the fall with the alleged savings from these cuts. Given other budgetary issues, we may not see additional service that was promised.
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The 43B service cuts have really affected me. I wish the ttc extended the 134 to Kennedy road.
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If anyone has not heart, Detroit is now proposing cuts to their transit service yet again. This one is big however. All major routes like Woodward (which gets service every 20 minutes or better at all times) will see their off peak service at various hours go down to a bus every hour.
I was hoping our cuts would have gotten media attention after they went into affect. However nothing.
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Some bus route maps have not been updated for a long time. For instance, none of the bus routes that service York U show the connecting box for Brampton Transit Zum, many still show BT connecting at Finch Station or along Highway 7 east of Weston Road which were eliminated in September 2010.
You call that a long time? There’s a vicinity map in Spadina station which still shows the 77 Spadina bus.
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I see that for Finch West service, the TTC looked at the possibility of trolley bus service. Oh well, it’s the thought that counts…
Steve: I think that was only included because of recent comments in the press about TBs as an alternative to LRT. Unfortunately, the author of the Finch report is the same person who wrote a skewed anti-TB study for the TTC a few years ago (which is cited in the current report). Now he grudgingly admits that some of the constraints previously cited might not apply, or be as serious, but still misrepresents the situation in Vancouver which has a healthy, well-maintained TB system.
TBs may still not be appropriate for Finch, but they deserve a fair look. The real issue is where any “Finch corridor” line should be built, and the report does point out that the demand, the passengers and the destinations are on Finch itself, not in the hydro corridor. Even if the hydro lands were turned into a busway, that would only be good for long-haul “regional” travel, and frequent bus service would still be needed on Finch itself where there is a lot of fine-grained local demand. Every rider is not going to Finch Station.
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Brian said: “Not cut but have the bus from Sheppard to Don Mills run every 30 minutes not 15.”
The 85 bus between Sheppard-Yonge and Don Mills runs every 20 minutes and every 10 minutes in rush hours. Usually, I see several passengers on board, often more, even on Sunday.
It’s convenient for people not near a Sheppard subway station (sometimes spaced 2 km apart.) I wish it were more frequent in the off-hours.
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Just wondering, could these cuts have more to do with the fare freeze rather than the tax freeze and cuts? If it is the former, maybe people would be more accepting to these cuts knowing that they are avoiding a fare increase.
Steve: Yes, the fare freeze triggered a requirement to show savings elsewhere in the budget, although this was supposedly done to fund improvements in the fall. This is far more about optics than good budgeting.
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Don’t trolleybuses have lower capacity than regular buses, since they can’t pass each other?
Steve: Capacity is a function of vehicle/train size and frequency. The last time I looked, streetcars/LRVs and subway trains cannot pass either. On a BRT implementation, if you want to allow vehicles to pass, space must be provided for a passing lane. Typically this would be done at stations where not all vehicles stopped, or where they used separate bays. Overhead can easily be set up for multiple bays, and using modern high-speed switches (unlike the antique and poorly-maintained stuff the TTC used), it’s easy for buses to pass each other where the system has been set up for it. In the case of a disabled bus, you pull down the poles to let other vehicles pass.
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I saw one of those new customer service kiosks today at Queen station as I left the subway. The thought of asking the girl working there what happened to the Mt. Pleasant bus crossed my mind briefly but it wouldn’t be fair to take out the actions of Karen Stints and the others on the commission under the influence of the heavy hand of the mayor’s office on the summer student working the kiosk. That said, any customer service employees the TTC might field are going to be thrown to the wolves because they’ll be the ones facing the music from angry customers when services the use get cut. The TTC needs to realize that a service cut with a smile is still a service cut, and no amount of customer service BS will make up for the fact that the bus doesn’t show up anymore.
On a separate topic, I think I read that the guy who wrote that unbalanced trolley bus report was pushing to become one of the citizen members of the commission. If that happens, the likelihood of TBs coming back will shrink even further because I doubt he’d vote in favour of their reintroduction thereby contradicting the position of the report he wrote.
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No posters or stickers on the 42 at all, from what I’ve seen. Every other time there has been a change, I’ve seen posters on almost every route sign.
I’m wondering why the sudden inability to not do that consistently for this change? Are they afraid Minnan-Wong is going to claim budget creep?
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Steve said: “…The last time I looked, streetcars/LRVs and subway trains cannot pass either…”.
Technically speaking yes they can.
505 WB can go down Parliament to Queen/King, Go west until Spadina, Go up Spadina then west back on Dundas.
McCaul can be used too.
A 501 can bypass the 501 in front of it by going down parliament to King then going up Spadina/Bathurst/Shaw (I think Shaw has tracks).
Also Church and Adelaide/Richmond combo.
Now Subway:
Train ONE is stuck just EB of Victoria Park Station, there is a track switch just EB of the station, Train TWO uses that switch and goes EB on the WB tracks until just west of Warden Station, used the track switch WB of Warden Station and voila.
Same thing with every other switch across the subway system.
Now this is just forgetting all safety/legal issues that might and would arise.
😀
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Pigs can fly if you tie on enough helium balloons. That doesn’t change the basic fact that they lack wings.
Steve: The point is that there are tradeoffs with every technology. The TTC has always chosen to portray trolley coaches is the least favourable light possible. Somehow other cities manage to operate heavy routes with them and the world does not come to an end. Airborn swine are not involved.
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IIRC, just as it is all but impossible to buy a wheelchair-inaccessible bus today, it also borders on impossible to buy a trolley bus that is not multifuel or battery-powered, either of which lets the bus go off-wire for reasonable distances.
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Sorry Steve: My sarcasm was too obscure. It was directed at the practicality of streetcars and subways “passing”.
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As of Thurs. afternoon, May 12, there were NO customer route change notices posted at Lawrence station re 124 Sunnybrook and 162 Lawrence-Donway. The old schedules are still on the wall except for a hand printed sign re the 162 from the collector that may not last long. Customers have had lengthy waits at night for a bus that no longer exists, then voicing their anger and frustration at the collector who also has not received any route change notice.
It’s understandable about the customers’ anger but the collector is stuck in the middle without that info and customers should call customer service at 416-393-3030 to express their opinions; few do unfortunately. So much for good customer service and communication. Surely there is a basic process in place that when Service Planning makes the changes weeks ahead, a memo is sent to the Graphics dept. to print notice cards and post them at appropriate stations, loops, every stop post, and memos to collectors. You can call Karen Stintz, TTC chairperson at 416-392-9022 or email to councillor_stintz@toronto.ca to state your views on these politically motivated changes and lack of information.
Steve: The internal memo detailing the service changes was issued on March 31. TTC claims that it takes a long time to change the schedules, but they obviously had time to visit all of the stops and put up the yellow stickies. Given the magnitude of this change, there was a special urgency to get it right, but that’s not part of what passes for TTC customer service.
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Finally, today (Thursday PM) the 73B stop has a cardboard sign and new schedule in the mounted frame. Still nothing yet for 32A.
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