The TTC will implement several service changes for its February-March schedules primarily to improve peak service on some overcrowded bus routes. This is a sign that the available bus fleet is expanding and more peak service can be offered.
A few routes have new schedules to reflect actual operating conditions.
The 66 Prince Edward bus will be revised so that the same level of service is provided to Lake Shore (Humber Bay) and Humber Loop at all times.
TTC needs to roll out a ten minute network on 60B/D Steeles West, 54A Lawrence East, 16 McCowan, 41 Keele, 68 Warden, 88 South Leaside, 11 Bayview, 123C Shorncliffe, 37B Islington, 110 Islington South, 196 York University Rocket, and 190 Scarborough Centre Rocket. Also, all 60 Steeles West buses should be re routed both way into York University because people who uses 60 west of Jane needs to go to the campus.
It’s good to know TTC is adding more service during the peak.
Looks like TTC is spreading the Artic love, and/or making it more official on other routes, eg route 105 and 196. I notice those routes have been getting artics for a awhile now but not official on any schedules.
Steve: Actually these changes are to even out the use of artics so that more of them are in service even if a route isn’t 100% covered.
When they added an extra bus on 83 Jones on Saturday, I really thought it was just compensation for the detour related to the Leslie Barns, but they will be adding more service on it Mon-Fri during the late evening. 83 Jones has come along way. Now all the 83 Jones route needs is an extension to Tommy Thompson Park during the summer months.
Routes 143 is finally getting more service, that route if I remember correctly has the highest ridership out of all the 140s Downtown express buses. And also Route 144. It would be nice if they took away the premium fare. I guess that’s no longer being brought up anymore?
Steve: This will probably be part of the express bus study to come out in June.
When it comes to matching school runs to school dismissal time, why does it take TTC so long to realize it wasn’t matching. Is it the school’s responsibility? I would imagine it to be, or is it the other way around. It’s not like these schools change the dismissal time half way through the school year. Every year this happens. At the beginning of the year the school should tell TTC the dismissal time for TTC to schedule it right.
Steve: Actually, for September schedules, the TTC should know this info by the end of the previous school year, although they could probably make do with “run as directed” buses for the first month or so until times settled down.
Not in a million years. All routes are fine as is.
It’s no surprise that 134C PROGRESS is getting artics. My idea was suggested to an operator who drove bus #1222 on that route a week ago because that bus was cramped and full of Centennial College students. It’s good to have long buses benefiting the route.
It would’ve been better for the TTC to purchase additional articulated buses for routes 39, 54, 96, 131E, 185, 186, 195, 198 and 199.
I doubt this will ever happen as there is nowhere for a bus to turn at TT Park. The walk on Leslie from Commissioners Street (where the 83 now stops) to TT Park is about 300 metres and since one presumably goes to the Park to walk this hardly seems a great problem.
Artics will never happen on the 186. Although there has occasionally been an artic on the 97A, the fact is, while they can navigate York Mills Station with ease, none of the platforms there are designed for 60ft buses, and the station barely handles 40ft buses when it’s very busy. You’ll probably see an articulated bus on every other route Arrow Road has before you’ll see it running on the 96/165 or variations thereof.
@Jelo G. Cantos Yeah, they all need it. Deal with it, sometimes, they are careless. For example, the 54A Lawrence East east of Orton Park is very busy that not all buses go as far as Orton Park. 41 Keele, 88 South Leaside, 11 Bayview, 60 Steeles west of Keele, 37 Islington, 110 Islington South, and 16 McCowan are just like 24 Victoria Park and 7 Bathurst and of course they are all busier than 87 Cosburn and 94 Wellesley that already runs on 10 minute network. 196 York University Rocket and 190 Scarborough Rocket are busy employment routes. 123C Shorncliffe is a high volume route because of increased ridership to Smartcentres Etobicoke and Sherway Gardens.
Not only that, the TTC needs a new route that would operate all day, every day on Parkside drive between Keele station and Lake shore.
Someone has done a 54A Lawrence east route video of a bus that is crowded east of Orton Park.
Steve: 80 Queensway operates on Parkside, albeit infrequently, during most operating hours except on Sunday. What you want is not a new route, but more service.
Actually, there used to be service into the Park in the late Seventies and early 80s that at first was and branch of 31 GREENWOOD, and then operated as a separate route from Queen and Jones. It was one of the strangest services ever provided: in order for the bus to actually enter the park grounds, which was still under construction at the time, one of the passengers — NOT the driver! — had to sign an indemnity form (I did it a few times) absolving the City from any responsibility should anything happen to one of the patrons. I assume people approaching by foot or on bike had to do the same.
Almost as strange was the original service by 84 SHEPPARD buses through CFB Downsview. All bus stops within the base were manned by guards. Nobody could get off the bus unless they had proper ID. If a bus broke down on base, it was placed under guard with no one allowed off until a replacement bus came (I presume if the bus caught fire, they provided a little leeway with that…).
Okay, but it’s dissapointing there’s no full service on Parkside drive. There should a full service there.
Steve: You undermine your credibility calling for service on many routes when you appear unaware of the existence of one that is already in place.
I dunno why they put artics on 97 Yonge. 97 Yonge is a low ridership route because it obviously overlaps the Yonge subway.
@Steve I do always look at the service summary.
Steve: Well if you did that, you would know that 80 Queensway runs to Keele Station. Also it’s not enough to look at the service summary — you need some familiarity with the routes you talk about.
There was full service on Parkside Dr via Route 80 Queensway during the Ridership Growth Strategy era but it was cut during the Ford administration and it was one of the few cuts that wasn’t restored under Tory.
There are a lot of factors that work against service there, like on the west site of the street there is High Park where no one lives and the east side are large houses. I ride it often and few get off on Parkside Dr. Most people use it come from The Queensway area
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Actually, a separate Parkside Drive service may be warranted. There’s a lot of demand to Sunnyside on summer weekends. Probably a lot more demand there than along The Queensway, especially on a Sunday (everyone drives). Maybe riders will magically appear if the frequency of the 80 was increased, but I suspect that you’d get good traffic between Keele station and Sunnyside, and then buses pretty much deadheading out to Sherway and back.
Steve: I am reminded here of the 92 Woodbine South as an analogy, but unlike the situation at Sunnyside, there is only one transit route to Woodbine beach.
The very useful Transit Toronto site has a history of the very odd Tommy Thompson park bus.
There is more info here about the Aquatic park service.
The things one learns here! I had no idea the bus existed and actually went to the end of the Spit.
113 DANFORTH and 129 McCOWAN NORTH are already 10 minutes as is 16 McCOWAN is 15 minutes. Your transit planning does not make sense. All three will likely co-exist after the Line 2 extension opens in c. 2023.
Dude, next time, suggest them to Mr. Byford. It’s not rocket science you know.
Not needed. There’s already the 80 QUEENSWAY. They did that before until 2011. What Steve said is true:
First of all, the video that “someone” made is you Paul. I know your actual identity/alias as Huy Pham. (Little help Steve, this person was banned from RFD forums and CPTDB before).
Kennedy station has two platforms designed for artics. I remember seeing #9067 on Line 3 Shuttle with it before. Lets see if they can handle the 131E or 198.
Steve: As a general issue, I really tire of people posting all sorts of comments about route changes, especially when (a) they have done so before and (b) it is clear they are not familiar with all of the routes they mention. This is the end of the current exchange.
@Jelo G. Cantos You think they don’t need it because you never take them so you don’t have a correct proof to tell us. Plus, I never made that bus ride that I showed to Steve. Go look at the service summary again, the 113 did not run on a ten minute network. I am very experienced at transit planning because I ride almost all TTC routes. Huy is not my alias.
TTC doesn’t need more artic buses if they don’t know what to do with them. Additional running time added to every single artic route is not what we need. The 85 Sheppard East has been adjusted for artics and is being adjusted again.
The TTC doesn’t really like to run artic buses for whatever reasons. Only Dufferin gets artics on weekends, the rest are stuck in the garage occupying space. The 320 Yonge night bus never get their assigned artics on Sunday mornings nor does the 85 Sheppard East on Saturdays.
The 131E is a non-starter for artics. The express portion isn’t as busy in the counterflow direction from STC to Kennedy. There are plenty of seats at times as people would prefer to ride the SRT instead. People only ride the 131E at Kennedy in PM rush because they would get a seat there opposed to at STC, not because the demand is there.
The 195 and 198 would be nice if they got artics, but they run too infrequent for artics. The first step is always add more buses till they get close to 5 min. headways before swapping to artics. Otherwise we’ll have the pathetic problem on the 41 Keele were there is no buses for 20 minutes during midday and 2-3 artics come by. The 195 has major management problems. They get as bad as short turning southbound Eglinton which means it’s at least 25 minutes late. Major gaps are hourly occurrences. Artics solve nothing. Artics actually increase bunching as 100 riders try to board a late bus oppose to 60. With the 35/195, everyone has to board through the front doors at Jane Station too.
Some of the above comments are made for the joy of seeing artics on different routes instead of the actual operating conditions.
Well, prior to 1995 the 80 Queensway did not run east of Humber Loop. But the pre-cut levels would be an improvement.
Also, both High Park and Sunnyside would be destination points for the 80 bus. Actually, it’s easier to access High Park from the 80 bus than it is from the Carlton streetcar thanks to an actual entrance at Parkside Dr. and High Park Blvd. It is far harder to access the park from the Carlton car’s loop. And I know this from experience.
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What is the difference between a “Rocket” and an “Express”? There is an express service on 45 Kipling but a rocket is proposed for 44 Kipling South route.
Glad Bay will get two additional buses for the AM peak. Would be great if they were brought back as 6C branches again as that’s usually the greatest pain is at on a daily basis from after 7am in one direction. But regardless, a welcomed change.
Now to just reduce that legacy bunching up of units toward the end of the route….
Artics at Kennedy are not the best thing… My father drove a change-off Ikarus artic into Kennedy many years ago (My understanding is that was the only bus they had available at the time).
It could fit on the platform but the issue at hand was the turn radius was not ideal. Trying to get them around the ends of the platform with other buses in the way was akin to threading a needle. Doable but you have to be good at it otherwise it is not worth doing.
In the end he swore he would never drive another artic again and has not done so since. Driving an artic into Kennedy Station should require an indemnity waiver with the words “should the clearance not be sufficient and I hit another vehicle…”
The amount of vehicles at Kennedy Station during the rush hour in relation to the clearances precludes articulated buses ever operating there. The same problem is present (albeit even worse) at Scarborough Centre where with all the GO, Can-ar, TTC buses you cannot move in there sometimes.
You are probably more likely to shoehorn articulated buses in St. Clair West or Downsview than you are any stations in the east end!
Three random interjections –
1) @Kevin Reidy I believe the express cost an extra fare and the rockets do not (though I could be wrong).
2) Likely unrelated, but I saw an in service ALRV on Queens Quay today, doing 510 duty heading west towards Spadina. Isn’t the route supposed to be entirely new rolling stock at this point? Don’t tell me they’re already breaking down.
3) While I personally have little experience in the west end, a good friend of mine commutes on the 66 and 501 on a daily basis. He says he’s noticed an improvement on 501 timing since the split, and was *thrilled* to hear the 66 is being altered to increase the frequency on Park Lawn – apparently it hasn’t been well operated for quite some time!
From personal observation (I take the 501 most days to Leslieville,) the first week or so saw quite a few short turns in both directions, but service does seem to have evened out. I never have to wait for more than 5-6 minutes for a streetcar, and even the 502 buses seem better.
To be fair, it wouldn’t be difficult to modify the existing parking lot at the entrance so that buses could also loop there.
It’s stupid how the TTC reduce the service for 85 to around 9 minutes on a weeday midday. I wonder what the service looks like when it runs 9 minutes. It would look horrible.
Steve: The TTC’s argument is that the service actually runs less often than scheduled already, and they are simply matching the schedule to reality. Of course if someone wants to shell out the money to improve service, that’s another matter. Talk to that nice Mr. Tory.
How cute. The TTC is hoping for up to 6 more LFLRV’s to use on Harbourfront in 2 weeks time. I’m going to go out on a limb and predict they won’t even get half of those new cars before the end of the board period.
For those interested in such things, 4416 (which was delivered just before the clock struck 2016 and still hasn’t seen revenue service) left Roncesvalles last night for a spin to Humber loop before looping back through Parkdale on King and Queen streets. There must be issues with this car if it is taking this long to commission. The status of the next car 4417 is anybody’s guess.
I saw Paul Kingston’s (if that’s who you are!) comments about increasing to 10 minute service on some routes he has suggested. First, they are all over the place( I could understand it if it was in one area … then you could accept that you’ve ridden all those routes). Not good.
Second, let’s go over some of those routes … 88, South Leaside (you’ve got to be kidding), I have friends working at the postal installation on Wicksteed … they come by Eglinton or Don Mills and walk in. 11 Bayview … I lived next to that route for a few years. Once you get past the Sunnybrook/Glendon area at Lawrence, only a handful of people get on for the rest of the route (okay … when St. Joseph Morrow Park gets out, it changes the numbers for about 15 minutes!).
60 Steeles West past York U going west … I’m on Steeles in this area every 2nd day. Each time today, I saw several artics and there was still seats going west. As for the return trip going into York (before going on to the subway), the bus stop where they let everyone off at Founders Road, has the huge student parking lot right there and they walk in!!!
110, Islington South … been down there quite a bit … have family living in the area … it’s already 10 minutes service as far as Judson … the branch to Lakeshore has 3 or 4 stops (I think) and that massive bridge over the GO train yard, therefore not needed here … the other branch to Long Branch will not have a full bus, even when people are visiting West Detention. I’ll leave 41 Keele and 37 Islington alone for now.
If you’ve ridden all or some of these routes, I’d understand.
Steve, haven’t been on for a while to say thank you for all you do here!!!!!
Steve: You’re welcome!
Are there updated stats on the cause of delays on the subway? Just from my rush hour experience, I’ve noticed a lot fewer passenger assistance alarms since they put up the emergency only signs.
Steve: The TTC has these stats but has not published the breakdown of causes of subway delays. However, there is a sense that the better signage plus the campaign to explain what the alarms are for appear to be helping. Some PAAs are quite legitimate, and they tend to go up when trains are crowded because people overhead and/or cannot deal with the crowds.
The 510 is now supposed to be a mix of ALRV and LFLRV equipment. The announced intent is to replace ALRVs with LFLRVs as more arrive, but for now it’s normal to see ALRVs out there. It doesn’t mean the LFLRVs are breaking down. Sorry.
What would be surprising would be to see CLRVs. I don’t often ride the 510, but I do cross the route at least twice every working day, often as not afoot, and sometimes walking 500m or so along Spadina. I’ve seen a CLRV only once, a day or two after they were supposed to have been removed; none since. That’s not a comprehensive survey by any means, but it does suggest that cars aren’t dropping like flies.
I don’t know why you didn’t approve my comments. It’s nothing offensive to you.
Steve: As I said before, there is a point where talking about which routes should have what kind of service gets a bit tiring.
Kevin Reidy, Denon Osterman: Express buses operate along side regular (local service) buses during weekday rush hours. Rockets operate during all bus service hours (excluding Blue Night hours). Premium Express routes charge additional fare.