The TTC and Toronto Water will be rebuilding their infrastructure at Dundas & Spadina this summer.
Here are the preliminary plans for TTC service as supplied by Brad Ross:
- July 14-28: Water main work in the intersection. 510 Spadina will run with buses over its entire route. 505 Dundas cars will divert both ways via McCaul, College and Bathurst.
- July 28-August 11: Track work. 510 Spadina will be split into two routes. The northern section will run to Baldwin looping via College, Huron and Baldwin to Spadina. The southern section will run to Sullivan and will simply make a U-turn at that intersection.
- August 11 onward: Bus operation will continue on 510 Spadina while reconstruction at Spadina Station Loop for new streetcars continues. The 505 Dundas car will return to its normal routing.
August 31, 2014 is the start of the next schedule period, and at that time new streetcars will make their debut in service on 510 Spadina running south to Queens Quay Loop. As previously reported here, service to Union Station is not expected until the next set of schedules on Thanksgiving weekend.
So they are separating the route for two weeks?
Seems rather pointless doesn’t it?
Steve: The intersection will be impassible, and I’m not sure a diversion with buses would work too well especially on Queen West (say, a College, McCaul, Queen route).
So will streetcar service be better after?
Steve: The slow order will be lifted along with removing the danger of derailment, but service is otherwise unaffected.
Apologies if this has been covered previously but will the arrival of the new streetcars have an effect on the proportion of 510 cars that routinely turn back at King vs going as far south as QQ?
Steve: I believe that the TTC already has plans to increase the proportion of the service running through to Queens Quay, but we will have to see the September schedules to be sure.
This is relatively new track bed; or at least I remember it going in. So why does it get worn out so quickly, and then get replaced at whatever cost? Why can’t we also get the curbs rebuilt to make it safe enough for bike lanes as Spadina is in the 2001 Bike Plan for bike lanes and yet, it’s sooo feeble and remains dangerous, with a recent tragic fatality. It really feels like the TTC are road hogs; the tracks dictate lane position so we can’t repaint the roads for bike lanes, and since bikes are excellent options for many in the core for the trips that the TTC offers, it feels quite deliberate that things are kept unsafe and deadly dangerous to ensure the money keeps flowing in.
Steve: Dundas and Spadina was rebuilt in preparation for the opening of the 510 Spadina car and so is not quite 20 years old. All of the special work on that line was not built to modern standards with welded track panels and resilient track mounts. I am not surprised that it is falling apart now.
As for lane positions, Spadina was completely rebuilt for the streetcars, but the tracks are not going to move today to suit new ideas of what a “correct” street layout might be. If you’re going to resort to the idea that a decision to make streets unsafe for cyclists is deliberate, and that by implication any injuries/fatalities are on the TTC’s hands, well you are going right over the top.
I despair of the arrogance of some in the cycling community who are even more self-centred than some residents of Scarborough and will resort to any argument, valid or otherwise. You do yourself and your cause no favours with that sort of “logic”.
I’m despairing of the brittleness of some minds who keep pumping multi-millions into large systems that yes, provide excellent mass mobility at many times, but also, by the presence of the rails, increase dangers to cyclists, and both the City and the TTC do not seem to care a whit about their injuries, turning away eyes to them.
If we had anywhere near the official backing that the TTC enjoys, or automobility, you might find a lot less attitude from cyclists and far fewer injuries too. But they don’t even bother counting how many of us get injured slipping on the tracks and they are a systemic hazard. It’s much more wilful blindness than deliberate tossings into the tracks, but this is not a new topic for some of us to raise, and btw, implying that I’m self-centred is pretty low.
These are all real people hurt or killed; not me:
Cycling collision map from the Globe
and if streetcar harms were added, these harms would become even more pronounced on the east-west roads of the core, except Bloor, where the deadheads of Moronto seem unable to expand the subway for the price of paint, though now we’re studying it again, the same stretch, 8 years after the first commitment to study, not including the 21-year-old study either. How strange that we need an EA for the line of paint of bike lanes, but the Gardiner repairs surge through.
And yes, odds are good that if we were finally given a couple of straight, safe bike routes parallel to crowded transit routes there’d be a drop in the transit usage and its pressure, and some more advanced systems are using bikes for demand management.
Consider a trip to Montreal to see what a bike-friendly city looks like; it also has a much better subway system than here.
With bike infra, we need to catch up with mere Ottawa, Burlington, Waterloo, Hamilton….
Steve: When I screen for fatal accidents, I see a lot of points that are nowhere near streetcar lines. I agree that better provisions for cycling are needed, but there are streetcar routes all over the world. If you just want to get rid of them here, say so, but do not be so sanctimonious as to imply that I regard severe injuries or deaths as a necessary price of having a streetcar system.
Will TTC buses uses portions of the streetcar right of way during the replacement? Or will they continue with the “buses don’t use the ROW” policy (despite the bus images on the diamond lane signs)?
Steve: I suspect the latter, especially considering that the turnaround northbound at Sullivan involves a U-turn.
I lived in Montreal for 30+ years and have visited often since I moved here a decade ago and I am not sure I agree with this statement. The Metro certainly runs FAR less frequently and one of the features you see in Montreal is people running to catch trains. When we moved here we soon realised that nobody does this in Toronto, because the next train will be along very soon.
There is a lot lower ratio of streetcar track miles (km) to road miles (km) than there was in the 50s and 60 when I was too young to drive a car and the tracks had cobble stone paving which was extremely slippery when wet. We did not complain about the problems caused by the tracks but learned how to ride over them or to stay of the streets with them.
Most of the roads in the old city are too narrow to have all the types of lanes that people would like. Roads with streetcars are generally too narrow for auto, bikes and streetcars to coexist without some radical change in their usage. Roncesvalles is one example where this has been done to the benefit of bikes and transit but it is a north south street with other north south streets without streetcars to absorb some of the displaced autos. I agree that there has to be more consideration and resources given to bike lanes but there is not room for all 3 on most streets without severely impacting pedestrians and that is not going to happen.
Fight for the possible, not the impractical, and do not blame all your problems on the TTC. It is true that the current mayor regards cyclist as little more than speed bumps but work to elect politicians who are more sympathetic to your cause. You need to come up with practical suggestions that can get implemented quickly and cheaply and do not impact on major thoroughfares like Bloor Street because while it may be logical from your, and other cyclists, point of view it is highly illogical to the businesses and drivers on it and they have more political clout at the moment than you do. If you don’t you will be as effective as Don Quixote.
I noticed the Queen/Parliament intersection is showing wear already. IIRC this intersection was rebuilt a short while ago? There are pits forming under the rails in some spots. A consequence of re-opening the line too soon?
Steve: This is surprising considering that this was done in 2010 and dates from the era of pre-assembly of track in panels.