Updated Dec. 11, 2010 at 2:20 pm: The section on the site remediation report for the proposed Ashbridges Bay carhouse has been updated to reflect a June 2010 report on a possible alternative site near Broadview and Eastern.
Original article from Dec. 10, 2010:
The new Toronto Transit Commission dominated by political supporters of Mayor Ford will hold its first substantive meeting on December 15, 2010. Among items of interest on the agenda are:
- The Chief General Manager’s Report to the end of October, 2010 including updated financial and ridership data.
- Award of the contract for soil removal and remediation at the proposed Ashbridges Bay Maintenance Facility
- Lease of a property to house an expanded streetcar overhead maintenance department.
- An update on requests for service to Variety Village.
- Award of the contract for the Union Station Second Platform construction.
- A review of eligibility for the Post Secondary Metropass.
Chief General Manager’s Report
Ridership growth over 2010 continues through the early fall, and the rate of increase appears to be up slightly relative to the spring. The projected year-end figure is now 477-million compared with a budgeted figure of 462m, and a 2009 actual of 471m. This is a 1.2% growth over 2009 achieved when budget expectations had been that the 2010 fare increase would drive some riding away.
The TTC repeatedly argues that service is the most important determinant of riding, and points to the continued implementation of aspects from the Ridership Growth Strategy. However, the budgeting uses a more conservative approach and assumes that fare levels will always trump service quality. This is a difficult relationship because much depends on the base from which one starts. If service is already seen to be at least “adequate” if not “good” or “excellent”, then this means customers begin their reaction to fare changes on a vaguely positive note. However, if service is perceived to be “bad” or “worsening”, then the compound effect of a fare increase leads to the feeling of “paying more for less”.
As we go into a new era of fiscal conservatism in Toronto, it remains to be seen which approach the TTC will recommend and Toronto Council will take.
The projected revenue totals $43.1m over the budgeted level, of which $40.5m is from fares. Given that the change in riding relative to budget is about 15m, this is about $2.70/rider. This implies that the average fare is considerably higher than the budgeted projection because the additional revenue per additional ride is well above the average fare, even greater than the token fare. The average fare overall will be about $1.95 ($928.5m in fare revenue divided by 477m riders).
[Note: the appendices containing the detailed budget breakdown are not included in the online material, but are in the hard copy agenda.]
Expenses will be $17m under budget for the year due mainly to savings on fuel and depreciation, partly offset in other areas, notably service increases to deal with unexpectedly strong riding.
Overall, the preliminary estimate for the TTC’s surplus (relative to subsidy requirements) is $60m, but this must be tempered for future years by several factors.
- The favourable price for diesel fuel may not continue depending on conditions in world markets.
- The cost of additional service to address demand will be felt for a full year in 2011, not to mention any further effects from riding growth.
- Changes in financial reporting requirements may produce one time accounting changes in 2011. Whether these will be non-cash items (bookkeeping entries that do not require cash infusion to the TTC accounts) remains to be seen.
- Pension obligation provisions. The TTC pension fund has an actuarial liability of about $1-billion. Depending on the way this is handled, a considerable extra cost may appear in coming years’ Operating Budgets to pay down this liability.
On the Capital side of the organization, spending runs below budget mainly due to slippage in various project schedules. For coming years, the Capital Budget may undergo significant changes depending on whatever changes are made in Transit City and subway plans, not to mention the future of the new streetcar fleet (see below).
New Streetcar Projects
Ashbridges Bay Maintenance Facility
The estimated cost of the new carhouse has gone up by $89.7-million relative to the approved amount of $345m. In December 2009, the Commission received a report on the proposed Ashbridges site that flagged the need for additional costs for soil remediation, but this information was in the confidential attachment. There is no way to see how strongly, or at what potential cost, this issue was raised at the time, nor how this might have affected comparison of the Ashbridges site’s suitability with other proposed locations.
At the Ashbridges site, the proposed soil removal and capping contract will cost roughly $51-million. This unexpected cost is sure to trigger further debate about the choice of site which was controversial at the time for various reasons including the neighbourhood’s concern that the land in question is functionally a park and issues regarding streetcar traffic on the new connection track south from Leslie and Queen.
Updated Dec. 11, 2010: In June 2010, the Commission considered a report regarding an alternative carhouse site at the Unilever property south of Broadview & Eastern. During the site search which led to the selection of the Ashbridges Bay property, the Unilever site had been dropped from consideration because:
- Part of the site was leased, and the remaining acreage was too small to hold the new carhouse and yard.
- Demolition and cleanup costs for the site were thought to make it about 20% more expensive than the Ashbridges site.
- There was concern about noise interference with a neighbouring film studio.
By June 2010, the leased property was now vacant. We also know that the available space at Ashbridges turned out to be smaller than expected as some land was directly above a major water main.
From the report on the December 2010 agenda, we now know that there will be a substantial cost to clean up the Ashbridges site.
This leaves only the Film Studio and the procedural issues involved in acquiring the Unilever site as potential issues.
Access to Ashbridge’s Carhouse
Other issues related to Russell Carhouse have changed since the Ashbridges design was approved by the TTC.
- A proposal to use the westernmost part of Russell Yard for access between Queen and Eastern had been rejected due to conflict with an existing building and business at the northwest end of the yard. This property has been on sale for several months.
- A proposal to extend Russell Carhouse to provide a major repair facility for new cars which would have reduced the capacity of the yard (coupled with loss of space to a connection corridor at the west side of the property) has been dropped.
During discussion of this access, it was claimed that operation via Knox Avenue would conflict with Canada Post operations. In fact, the main access for trailers to Canada Post is at the east end of their site on Woodfield. It was rather embarrassing that TTC staff dragged in a Canada Post rep (who didn’t even live in Toronto) to give an erroneous deputation to the Commission on this point.
[End of update]
Whether the matter of the site selection will be reopened, or will further cloud the future of the streetcar system, remains to be seen.
Streetcar Overhead Replacement
The report proposes that the Commission lease space for the Overhead Department for a period of five years to handle the workload of rebuilding the tangent and intersection wiring on the streetcar network. The report explicitly refers to “pantograph hardware”, and it is clear that the TTC has decided to move to that technology.
The Capital Budget already contains an item for overhead reconstruction, but until the 2011 version of the budget comes out, we will not know whether the previously approved dollar amount covers the scope now proposed.
Service to Variety Village
Variety Village has been the subject of service requests at the TTC in the past, most recently in 2004 when TTC staff recommended that this be provided with a Wheel Trans shuttle service. As a letter from John Wilson, CEO of Variety Village, points out, Wheel Trans is not available to most of their members and staff making this of limited benefit. Walking into the site which is isolated in the Danforth, Kingston Road, Birchmount triangle is quite difficult. Although on a map, there appears to be good service around the site, in practice it is of limited use.
This is an excellent example of problems that can arise from poor site planning for transit. Variety Village has existed for nearly 30 years on a site that is unfriendly for pedestrian access, let alone access by the disabled. Clearly, the frame of reference for travel to such facilities has changed over the decades.
Variety Village proposes that the Warden South bus be diverted from Birchmount to loop via a driveway used by both Birchmount Collegiate and Variety Village, and with an exit traffic signal already in place. The TTC is going through its usual motions about “inconvenience” to passengers who are taken out of their way by such a route even though this type of operation exists elsewhere on the network.
Given that then-Councillor, now-Mayor Rob Ford has taken an interest in the matter, it will be intriguing to see whether the situation is now evaluated in a more favourable light. The actual staff recommendation will not be known until it is presented at the Commission meeting.
Union Station Second Platform
The Commission will consider a tender in the amount of $161.6m from EllisDon for the second platform and concourse improvements at Union Station. Of this amount, $137.5m will come from the Toronto Waterfront Revitalization Corporation (itself funded by all three levels of government plus development proceeds). The remainder will come from various TTC project budgets dealing with station and facility maintenance and improvements.
This project does not include any work on expansion of the Waterfront LRT station.
Construction will begin in January 2011 and run to April 2014. This work will be co-ordinated with other projects in the area, notably the Union Station Revitalization underway already by the City.
Schedules for route 6 Bay will change in February 2011 to give extra running time on the Dupont to Jarvis service, and during peak periods only the 6B Dundas short turn will operate. I will include details when I post the service change overview.
Post Secondary Metropass
Post Secondary student metropass use is now restricted to full and part time degree and diploma students. Sales have been good, running slightly above (6%) projections.
In September, the TTC received requests from student organizations and from the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities that access to this pass be extended to a wider range of students. The estimated loss of revenue from such an action is estimated at $2.5m for a ridership gain of about 100,000.
Staff do not recommend changing the eligibility criteria, and it will be interesting to see how this request fares in the coming TTC and City budget process. Other groups, notably those on various forms of social assistance, also seek transit subsidies, but the reception they receive from the new Commission and Council is likely to be frostier than in past years.
Steve Munro 
How did we suddenly get to “must replace all the overhead”? Is this really justified? It doesn’t say if this will be pole/pan dual-compatible, but I assume it would have to be, with the possible exception of Ashbridges Carhouse. At least St. Clair is already prepared except for the addition of ‘skates’ around the frogs. I know this isn’t an opportune time for negativity about the system with Ford on the loose, but these new streetcars are sounding like more and more of a technologically lousy and expensive idea all the time.
On a related note, interestingly the massive new carhouse in San Francisco on the T-Third Street line has been made fully dual-compatible despite the relatively small size of the pole-based heritage fleet.
Steve: The new overhead on Roncesvalles, as well a fair amount of Spadina, is pantograph ready.
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Steve, do you know if Transit City construction is still continuing as is before an ultimate decision on Transit City’s fate is made?
Steve: The only construction actually underway is the underpass at Agincourt Station which is required for GO service improvements independently of Transit City’s future.
To add to my previous comment: I would expect cancellation costs to rise for every passing day the project is not cancelled.
Steve: The big contracts where cancellation penalties are those involving the tunnel boring machines (these might be repurposed) and the new LRVs. There are contracts for design work on various parts of Transit City, but these probably are driven by hours actually worked. Again, if the engineering teams are redirected to other projects, the termination costs could be minimized. The real waste is in the huge amount of design for LRT lines that has been done already, not to mention the loss of political momentum.
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Re: Kristian
And also note that the new cars do not require pans. They are fully capable of operating with poles, and have in fact been ordered with them. Pans make a lot of sense, but there’s not any real urgency to the conversion except that the overhead is coming due for renewal anyway and we had at one time the Transit City equipment was going to be at least partially compatible with the legacy network (in terms of gauge, but not turning radius).
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Steve, on the topic of overhead replacement:
Is it known what the timelines on such a project would be and would this work be able to be performed exclusively during non-revenue time? or would it involve shutting down lines for periods of service and requiring the use of shuttle buses? I know that overhead power would have to be shut off/isolated as the replacement occurs and that the work would likely take a lot less time than track replacement, but what are we looking at for the next 5-7 years in terms of diversions and replacement bus service?
Also, what are the main advantages of pantograph operation aside from de-wiring issues, and is the replacement of the entire overhead network justified based on the advantages, versus ordering the replacement legacy fleet with trolley poles.
Steve: The TTC routinely replaces overhead wiring all of the time. The new contact wires (and spans if these are also being replaced) are strung along a route beside (and over) the existing plant. The wire is held up with rope ties and left to stretch in place for a while before it is physically attached. The changeover generally takes place at night. Intersections are trickier, but there have been cases where new overhead is installed above the existing wires.
As you will see in the report, the new contact wire will be a heavier gauge. This increases its current capacity, and in conjunction with the change to pans which provide a larger contact area with the wire, this allows a car to draw more power for the larger size of the new cars, and their performance specs. Remember that PCC trains had a pole on each car.
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Regarding the “Service to Variety Village’ item on the agenda I think there was already a plan that would provide quality service to this area AND as an added bonus give the Cliffside Village better transit service. The plan comes from a document called the Transit City Bus Plan.
One, out of many recommendations, was a new bus route that would leave the improve Victoria Park Subway Station, which can accommodate a fourth bus at that station; this new bus route would leave VP Station and travel east on Danforth Rd. to Kingston Rd. and then Kingston Rd to Eglinton. It was to be a Bus Rapid Transit route, but, I think this route could end at Midland and Kingston instead of Eglinton. This would give Cliffside Village area and all the business’ there much better access because this Danforth Ave East bus would overlap with the existing #12 buses that cover this area. So not only would Variety Village be getting some much needed transit service, Cliffside Village would become a more desirable place to set-up business and live if this type of transit were available there. Cliffside Village would also have the #20 bus that is nearby as well on Park St. I hope more of the plans talked of in the Transit City Bus Plan find funding (the expanded indoor waiting area for buses at VP Station would be appreciated as well).
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“Post Secondary student metropass use is now restricted to full and part time degree and diploma students.”
That’s pretty well all students except for apprentices and adults taking one or two non-degree/diploma courses because of their interest in the subject. Since both categories of students probably have (in the case of apprentices must have) jobs, I support denying the post-secondary student metropass to them.
The educational component of many apprenticeships is (or can be) part of a community college diploma programme anyway.
One has to ask what goal is being sought by the student concession. Right now it goes to young and poor students as well as corporate fat-cats taking their “Executive MBA.” Is the goal for the City to support post-secondary education? Why not then fund scholarships instead? Is it to reduce student poverty? Why not then tie elegibility to OSAP or another need-based student assistance program?
It is unclear what goal is being sought by the post-secondary student concession and whether or not that goal could be better achieved another way.
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As you said Steve, it will be very interesting to see the staff report on service to Variety Village. 69 buses SB on Birchmount generally empty out by Danforth Rd (Birchmount Garage) – correct me if I’m wrong but I believe the TTC is obligated to provide bus service between garages and relief points for the operators. I think operators have to check/sign in first at the garage and then go back out to find their routes? 69 ‘Birchmount’ buses are always a sea of TTC uniforms.
Anyways, 69 buses SB on Birchmount usually empty out by Danforth Rd and are pretty much empty until they start picking up again @ KR and Warden going north. SB 69 buses down Warden again generally empty by KR and really do not start picking up until NB Birchmount @ Danforth Ave (usually kids who walk west from Birchmount High School).
On a normal day, 69 buses fly from subway to KR, sometimes in 5 or 7 minutes, they also have long layovers at both ends. Using the same schedule they can easily take another 5 minutes and service Variety Village. There is absolutely no need for a new route here and no new vehicles will be needed to “maintain existing headways” or however they like to state it. I do expect that staff will reject this extension but the only people ‘inconvenienced’ will be other TTC operators going to/from garage.
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In the Chief General Manager’s report, there is this paragraph:
“Vehicle Fuel: $14 million decrease. Lower diesel fuel costs primarily resulting from purchasing at spot market prices for the latter half of this year.”
Unfortunately, this savings will not last. Remember 2008? Fuel costs only went down because of the recession (reduced demand). This year, 2010, saw increases for the demand for oil from China and India. Some in the order of 25% or more. Increased demand plus a limited supply of oil means that the current fuel savings for the TTC will not last. The savings for vehicle fuel will be eaten up sooner if not later.
There are forecasts from economists for $5.00/litre for fuel in 10 years. Hopefully, streetcars, light rail, and heavy rail will be in place when the single-occupant automobile becomes a thing of the past (except for the rich of course). The price forecast for electricity is still lower than the price forecast for petroleum fuel.
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The TTC seem to have replaced almost all the POLES for the overhead in recent years and most now have the newer spans (if these are the wires that go from the poles to the wires). Of course, being the TTC these pole replacements seem to be done in a rather random manner (a few here, a few there rather than a whole street at one time) and result in both old and new poles both being there for a very long time. (Admittedly this latter problem is more because other users of the old poles, mainly Hydro) are very slow to de-wire them.)
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The Ashbridges site is “functionally” a completely ignored stretch of lawn in a pedestrian-inhospitable neighbourhood that critics of the carhouse never visited.
It would be helpful if you posted an entry providing documentation for your previous claim that the old Sunlight property was later (i.e., too late) agreed to have made more sense.
Steve: The Lever site was discussed in a report at the TTC on June 3, 2010. The site had originally been dropped from consideration because part of it was in active use (no longer true), because of an adjacent film studio, and because of concern regarding cleanup costs. However, now that we see large cleanup costs associated with the Ashbridges Bay, this condition may no longer apply.
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I agree with restricting the availability of postsecondary passes to full time students.
What I strongly disagree with is the idea of making discounted postsecondary passes conditional on OSAP eligibility because there are full time students out there that are in bad financial shape that aren’t eligible for OSAP who’d definitely benefit from a lower cost Metropass. Too many scholarships and bursaries and other benefits separate from OSAP are means-tested based on OSAP acceptance. What happens when you’re in bad financial shape and you apply to OSAP but get rejected, you are not only turned down for student loans, but you’re automatically disqualified from scholarships etc. that are separate from OSAP by extension. The last thing your average student needs is to have to pay full price for Metropasses after being disqualified from OSAP on a technicality. I’m sure the number of OSAP ineligible students out there that’d still benefit from a discounted Metropass is larger than the Executive MBA students that would use public transportation and purchase discounted passes.
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The only thing I am worried about is them using the driveway that is shared by the school and Variety Village. I went to BPCI a few years ago, I pass by there all the time and I know people who still go there. I know that driveway well having has many a fire drill there and I can say this is an accident waiting to happen. Some innocent child will be struck and killed by a bus looping there during school hours and the detour to Variety Village will be nixed. Not only that but the amount of vehicles awaiting students at the end of the day is enourmous. BPCI is one of the busiest schools in the city, from what I remember at the time I went there it was second only to Central Tech in terms of attendance. While I would have killed for a bus route to loop in front of my school at the time, I also recognized how unsafe that would be. The way the driveway is laid out, buses would have to enter onto school property in order to loop around, the driveway starts infront of the school and then meets up with Variety Village at its eastern end.
I think in terms of safety a new route is warrented something like 12C Kingston Road Via Danforth to Warden Station and 12C Kingston Road Via Danforth to Kennedy Station. I am just trying to think about safety here. I can see the TDSB, BPCI and concerned parents causing an uproar if they loop the 69 in front of Birchmount Park in order to service Variety Village.
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On the variety village route issue:
If one small part of the intersection reconfiguration from the Danforth/Kingston BRT were implemented, this issue could nicely resolve itself.
Contained within that proposal was a plan to reconfigure the way Danforth meetings Kingston Road, turning it into a T-intersection.
(a rather radical alteration but one with all sorts of benefits, such as parkland consolidation, transit benefits, dramatically better safety for pedestrians and cyclists and quite probably fewer car accidents from a less than ideal merge)
At any rate, were the intersection changes made, the Birchmount Bus could do an on-street loop via Danforth, right onto Kingston Rd, right onto Birchmount and back up.
That would work for everyone … though it’s not exactly a cheap solution.
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Warden Station is a major relief point for operators from Birchmount as well as providing access to the subway to travel to other relief points. One other point that has been overlooked in this whole discussion is that Warden Station is NOT accessible and has no way for persons in wheelchairs (or in need of other mobility devices to transfer from bus platform to another). The Warden Station redevelopment was put on hold with no timeframe given when it would be restarted. I have also driven on this route on numerous occasions and there is actually a sizable contingent of regular passengers who ride this route throughout the day – both the “B” (via Birchmount) and the “A” (via Warden).
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I have seen that driveway during school hours, and as an operator, I would have major issues with trying to navigate a bus through it during its busy times (as I would at any other school, as a matter of fact). You are correct in stating that it would be an “accident” waiting to happen (although the TTC officially never uses the term “accident” – they use collision or occurrence or incident). The only solution that makes sense from a “safety” standpoint is to alternate 12 Kingston Road service as outlined in the TTC reports. The problem with this solution is that to maintain service levels on the portion of Kingston Rd. between Birchmount and Cliffside Dr./Claremore Ave. (the stop at Glen Everest Rd. (at the bottom of the hill) is quite heavily used by the residents of the apartment buildings) is to add an extra bus to the route and adjust the schedules with layovers at Kennedy and Victoria Park stations (this is based on my personal experience of being an operator on this route).
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The problem with this approach is that Warden Station is very inaccessible. There are currently no elevators at Warden Station, and no ramps. All of the bus bays are accessed by stairs, as well as the entrance. It would be better to divert service on 12 Kingston Road once Victoria Park Station is accessible.
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That’s true. I just think the easiest option is to run a branch of the 12 Kingston Road along Danforth and another straight along Kingston Road. This way nobody is left behind and people still get service to Variety Village and there are no safety issues regarding driving in front of a high school.
The way I look at it, there is a reason that more stations are not designed the way Pape was where you can walk in front of buses. If you are not paying attention you are damned.
As for earlier comments stating Warden Station is not accessible. I would like to point out that some bus routes have no accessible transfer to the subway such as the 66 Prince Edward out of Old Mill. The way I look at it Variety Village has already stated that people with disabilities are not the majority of their clientele and if they are they are more likely to take wheel trans than the subway or buses.
I just think that running buses in front of the school is a huge liability and the TTC will not allow it. All it takes is for one student to get hit and the TTC is sued, the chances of that happening in front of a school with 1800 students at 3:00… almost 100%
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Why has the TTC been adamant about not operating service on “private property” situations like Variety Village? How many (or few) malls, hospital properties, etc does the TTC actually directly serve? These are common locations, and transit hubs, for other cities. So, the TTC feels all snobbish and self-righteous because it considers all its transit hubs to be Subway stations, and also because it provides service that PASSES major malls (which is still quite a walk for people laden down with packages and groceries). This is on top of its belief that requirements have to adapt to services, and not the other way around.
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geez, what an idiot am I! I never put it together that Warden was not accessible. Totally forgot. Of course then the 69 is not suitable and as you say, the only option is VP (it’s not accessible yet, no elevators – does any one know when they are to be installed?) I have been told the 20 route is ‘foot-on-the-pedal’ that whole way so this route would not work, and if diverting service on the 12 is the only answer, it would require at least one more bus which would mean that any extension to VV would not qualify. VV will just have to do without buses.
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Tying it to OSAP eligibility would be very complicated (i.e. high administrative costs). It’s much cheaper to check for someone having a university student card than to validate OSAP paperwork.
Simple is always better.
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Yorkdale, …, cant think of anything else and there is good reason for it. Mall roads are a major source of congestion and onerous delays to the through passengers. Here in Ottawa, local routes detour through just about every shopping mall in sight, and it can be quite time consuming.
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I believe sunnybrook is the only hospital that has buses loop on its property. All the rest loop outside (Scarborough Centenary) or pass by them enroute (Scarborough General).
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Perhaps I’m a Luddite on traction power issues for surface rail transit issues… but what are the key differences on pantograph vs. poles for the TTC? What are the pros & cons?
Steve: There are two main advantages. First, a pantograph can draw more power from the overhead than a pole, and the new fleet draws more power/car. Second, all of the issues associated with dewiring are eliminated.
In the context of many streetcar/LRT systems, pantographs are essential for bidirectional operation. On the TTC, this benefit would primarily be seen at carhouses and for emergency turnbacks using intersections as wyes. The Transit City lines, of course, are designed for double-ended cars eliminating the need for loops and simplifying the placement of turnback points.
The downside is the one time cost of restructuring the overhead, although even that will be offset by improvements that should make the suspension more robust.
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In the old days all sorts of TTC bus routes looped in hospitals, tons of gas station loops (especially in Scarboro), Loblaws parking lots, school driveways (Winston Churchill comes to mind) Of course with gas station loops the bus could not linger or pick up people, but they could at hospitals, strip malls etc. I don’t know exactly when TTC made it policy to not use these types of loops.
As a matter of fact I believe the 87A still loops in the small parking lot at the old folks home off of Cosburn/Westlake? They do not seem to have a problem there. Cosburn 87 buses have used that looping since 1984 and before that Woodbine 91D/E buses looped there staring in 1964. At VV there must be another solution rather than ‘borrowing’ space from the neighboring school driveway? As far as buses running in front of schools it is done all over the city so why not in front of Birchmount CI too?
Steve: Yes, the Cosburn 87A does loop through a parking lot. Indeed, it is the “A” branch that makes this diversion off of the route which, by the way, is at Haldon, not Westlake. If you go to Google Maps, it shows the location of the bus stop in the parking lot.
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What are the odds that there may be a last-minute tilting of the agenda to nix up the Transit City projects? And maybe we should presume some malign intentions, and so the next question is about the protocols and processes of tilting the agenda – so is it possible to have a last-minute item dropped in – and what responses can be given? ie. is the public going to be cut out from making deputations from lack of notice?
I think we may need to cast back to the Harristocracy and think of a government trying to break the system in order to “fix” it – and would that be the essential impact of putting so much capital into a less-wise subway project? (again)
Steve: Keep your eye out for a supplementary agenda. However, TTC management have said that they would not have a report on an alternative to Transit City until January, and the schedule of 2011 meetings, which doesn’t have a January date in it, mentions a possible special session of the Commission.
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Dewiring doesn’t occur with pantographs in the same sense that it does with poles, but it does occur and the results are generally catastrophic. The pantograph can easily snag and tear down a large amount of the wiring, generally destroying the pantograph as well. I’ve see photos of such an incident in Boston.
I realize this isn’t a common occurrence but it does mean that pantograph overhead must be tensioned, aligned and maintained to a much higher standard.
Steve: That’s a good point, given the TTC’s somewhat relaxed attitude to maintenance from time to time.
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Given that during the election campaign, Ford pushed for getting ride of the existing streetcar routes (phasing them out and replacing with buses), would the TTC Commission decide do cancel all of the proposals for work related to them, thus freeing money for things such as more buses or subway expansion? (Why upgrade overhead wire and do further track work when your intention is to phase out streetcars in favour of subways and buses). At what point does council have a say on what the Commission decides to do?
Phil
Steve: Council has approval powers over the Capital Budget, although directing the TTC to do work it didn’t want to do would be difficult. The real issue will be to get enough votes in two years to politically rebalance agencies like the TTC so that the mayor does not have a working majority on them. This is a tall order. Right now, Ford is operating with a de facto majority even though some of the early votes were close.
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It is the private career colleges that offer 6-18 month type diploma programs (Everest, RCC etc) are the Post Secondary’s looking to be eligible for the discount pass plan.
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“all of the issues associated with dewiring are eliminated.”
I understand a pantograph can dewire. Although it is rare, if it does happen it often damages the overhead, so it causes a lot more trouble then a simple trolly pole dewiring.
(You probably have to be a member of transit-toronto to see the message I’m linking to.)
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Let me see if I understand this correctly. The agenda for the meeting includes approval of more than $50 Million to clean up contamination on the Ashbridges Bay site. What was the original budget expenditure estimate for this work? What is the total projected cost of this property? (not inc. the carbarn itself). The carhouse cannot even accommodate the correct share of new cars that should be assigned there. How about putting off this approval and looking for another site? Maybe with some effort a new site could be had for less than $50M cleanup cost let alone the land cost. Korex Don Valley (old Lever Bros.) looks better more and more!
Otherwise, how about buying up 100 houses next to the existing carbarn and demolishing them? That will cost less than $50 M and ought to be popular!!
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While it isn’t a loop like the 124 Sunnybrook, the Leslie 51 leaves Leslie St for its stops on North York General Hospital’s property.
I noticed this movement while on the bus, and TTC’s detailed description of the route confirms it is private property.
Northbound 51 TO STEELES
… north on Leslie Street, east and north through the North York General Hospital grounds, west and north on Old Leslie Street …
Southbound 51 TO EGLINTON STN
… continuing south and east on Old Leslie Street, south and west through the North York General Hospital grounds, south on Leslie Street …
This is very similar to the descriptions for the 11 Bayview at Sunnybrook.
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@Richard White
Actually Richard, VV CLEARLY states, quite often in fact to media, that Disabled people make up a vast majority of their clientele, not only that but most disabled people who would want to go there are not able to get WheelTrans, especially if you’re blind or deaf, as those do NOT qualify as ‘physical disabilities’ under WT criteria, those people that want to go to VV, CANNOT, due to TTC incompetence, of not having decent service to VV, there is no other recreation facility in Toronto that is specifically designed for disabled/equal accessibility.
The walk from the 20 is long & mostly uphill in one direction, the walk from the 12 is incredibly unsafe if not downright dangerous for most disabled people, as you have to climb up a steep path, it is not a paved path either.
I myself wish I could go to VV. I have nowhere to go for exercise out here in Etobicoke that is accessible but conventional TTC, both pools near me, are served by routes that run out of inaccessible subway stations, so therefore, I cannot get to them. I love VV, have been there many times with friends when they have taken me.
One very important point is that neither intersection near VV has proper Audible crosswalks (last time I checked sept/09) & the route is not safe for blind people, as parts are not sidewalks & I know many blind people that don’t like crossing large parking lots.
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Em says, “People that want to go to VV, CANNOT, due to TTC incompetence, of not having decent service to VV, there is no other recreation facility in Toronto that is specifically designed for disabled/equal accessibility.
“The walk from the 20 is long & mostly uphill in one direction, the walk from the 12 is incredibly unsafe if not downright dangerous for most disabled people, as you have to climb up a steep path, it is not a paved path either.”
Well, I have never been out there, but from this description, I’d have to ask what incompetent architects and designers and City planners allowed this kind of siting? I don’t think it’s the TTC who dropped an “equal accessibility” facility out in the middle of nowhere, far from good transit, and apparently with problematic physical access from major streets. This strikes me as incompetence. The TTC is left to deal with the situation as it can.
Did Variety Village assume that everyone will drive there, or be driven there, or something?
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You have to keep in mind Ed that Variety Village was built at a time when Wheel-Trans did not exist and accessibility was not on anyone’s radar.
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Em, That is what I meant to say. I was trying say that VV Clientele do not qualify for WT so they have to take the TTC. This is why I suggested running one end of a new branch of the 12 Kingston road to Kennedy Station (an accessible station) for people with disabilities and the other to Warden Station (a non-accessible station) to serve the students of the local high school. Warden Station has an extra bus bay that is not used unless shuttles are in service and can easily handle the addition of another route.
Sending buses to Kennedy and to Warden will be the best of both worlds serving both clientele rather well.
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You shouldn’t underestimate the Toronto real estate market. Most of the houses around the existing carbarns cost more then half a million each.
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Both comments here are right here, but pantograph or bargraph is superior in today’s world. When maintained properly, which it should always be. Most modern streetcars or light rail transits “LRV” use pantographs today for a reason. Trolley pole is a ingenious but cruder way to collect power off cheap and poorly strung up wires. Trolley poles can be used for early startup for streetcars to get running on a cheaper budget. That time should have come and gone for TTC like it has for most other transit agencies. Toronto should not deal with trolley poles coming off frequently and making traffic worse.
I wish TTC would just copy somebody else’s well functioning transit. There are so many systems out there , find one that works and copy it. Show case it so we all know what to expect. People don’t often know what it is TTC is proposing, especially with the use of acronyms and computer images, what does it all mean ? How are people supposed to decide to support it? That is one reason it is easier to get support for subways because it is not an acronym and people know what it is. But if TTC can pick a transit or segments of transit systems in use as examples of what they want to build , it may be easier for the public to understand.
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We do have some issues with transit governance, ahead of Mr. Ford’s changes. So even though it may be too late, we do have to ask how qualified are the new transit commissioners? Do any of them take transit? Or is the main qualification being able to take orders from Mr. Ford? We should also be bothered by how the core area is unrepresented on this new Board and yet it is within the core that transit makes money because densities are good enough for effective transit.
Maybe we need to re-label the new TTC as Transit Trashing Crew – as I fear that the possible change away from the Transit City towards more subway in sprawl will have the effect of draining limited capital budgets for the next decade, though the Liberals also have had a penchant for less-wise projects.
Sick transit, once glorious (almost) and now being carrupted.
At least Mike Colle MPP nailed it today in a quote in the Star: “If you want full-blown subways, you have to have massive densities to make them viable.”
And he’s apparently holding a meeting tonight about Eglinton; 7-9 pm, Forest Hill United Church at 2 Wembley Road.
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@Gord – I know that both “A” and “B” leaving Warden Stn going south are well used. I was referring to the bottom end of the route, specifically south of the Danforth. Both branches seem to empty out around Danforth Rd. On Kingston Rd, both buses are pretty much empty. NB from Kingston & Birchmount the bus usually lays over at the first stop. A diversion east to serve VV would ‘inconvenience’ practically no one as the NB bus doesn’t really start picking up until Danforth Rd. (yes, at certain hours some school kids board @Dan Ave)
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Why does the TTC + City + Media all use St. Clair and Spadina as (POOR) examples of light rail when we have an excellent (By far the best in Toronto anyway) example of light rail right along the Queensway from Parkside to the South Kingsway!
It is a marvellous stretch! It is exposed rail so it doesn’t look too urban (perfect for the “openness” of the suburbs) and there’s a strip of grass and planted trees between the road and the rail (and again … without the concrete “urban” clutter) and there’s 2 lanes and dedicated left turn lanes and a bike lane.
If the city wants light rail to ever be successful, it has to showcase its one and only worth example! Especially if it plans to sell it as a viable plan for the suburbs!
– Exposed Rail as much as possible (less costs and less “concrete” effect)
– A strip of grass between road and rail and then a strip of grass between road and sidewalk (like the Queensway)
There is nothing more simple and elegant (in the suburbs) then having a strip of grass between a sidewalk and a curb and equally between a curb and a light rail…Even if it is a small buffer between loads of asphalt and concrete…it still makes a big difference!
Transit City did not accept the suburban “grass” character of the major avenues and instead tried to push as much concrete as possible on streets that have huge green buffer zones between the road and the sidewalk! (Eglinton, Finch, Sheppard)
Conclusion:
A) Suburbs = Hate Concrete so put more grass strips
B) Showcase Queensway as a light rail project. Stop mentioning St. Clair.
C) Make a video of the Queensway stretch and put it on the Transit City website!
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