Updated December 2, 2010 at 11:55 pm:
The Globe and Mail has a story by John Lorinc echoing the sentiments here with quotes from sundry people weightier than I am.
The Star reports on provincial reaction to Mayor Ford’s move.
Updated December 2, 2010 at 1:50 am: The Globe and Mail reports on a poll of Councillors regarding support for Transit City or subways.
- Pro Transit City: 14
- Transit City + Tweaks: 4
- Subways: 11
- Unknown: 15
Original article from December 1, 2010:
Toronto’s new Mayor Ford, acting with a haste uncharacteristic in Toronto affairs, and without even bothering to consult his new Council, has directed the TTC to stop work on Transit City. The “war on the car” is over, and all new rapid transit will be underground.
The deafening silence from Queen’s Park shows us how much Metrolinx and its regional plan, The Big Move, depend on political agreement among GTA municipalities. Removing the pols from the Metrolinx Board may have centralized important announcements at Queen’s Park, but it did nothing to blunt the effect any local Mayor or Council can have if they don’t play ball.
The Big Move has both a 15-year and a 25-year component, although the likelihood either of these would see substantial construction was compromised the moment Queen’s Park’s budget priorities trumped a scheme to build major transit improvements first as a prelude to new revenue tools. Nobody wants to talk about taxes or tolls, but money for transit, whatever the technology, won’t come from the tooth fairy. It won’t come from the private sector either, at least not without a guaranteed return on their investment.
Ford, whose aggressive tactics on Council are well known but whose character was carefully controlled during the election, has shown that he has a plan, and feels that his mandate gives him carte blanche to implement whatever he wants. The voters have spoken. Those who voted for 44 Councillors might beg to disagree, but that’s for Council to decide in weeks and months ahead.
The real problem is the lack of leadership on the transit file from Queen’s Park. The Big Move was cobbled together from many local plans, including Transit City, and flawed though it might have been, there was general agreement about the shape of the plan. Changing Toronto’s focus to subways unbalances the plan’s scale and benefits, not to mention the huge change in net cost. Mayor Ford’s concern for taxpayers’ dollars appears to end when someone else is expected to pay the bill, and this could deprive Toronto of transit improvements while growth proceeds on smaller-scale projects in the 905.
If we can rip Transit City out of The Big Move with only the barest of response from Queen’s Park, how safe is the rest of the plan? Will expansions in Mississauga, Hamilton, York Region and Durham be subject to the whims of whoever is in power, or will a semblance of regional planning remain? Will provincial efforts dwindle to supporting GO Transit, an organization whose forced marriage with Metrolinx is still quite shaky. The bride and groom are still arguing over decorations, and they almost certainly have separate bedrooms.
Readers who know me well will appreciate that today is not the brightest day in my history of transit advocacy. It would be easy just to write a bitter rant against the incoming regime. That would be a waste of time — they won’t read it anyhow, any more than they will listen to editorial boards at the Globe and Star.
That regime is not stupid, although many would paint Ford and his crew as a bunch of bumbling hicks. They know what they want to achieve and they appear ready to push as hard as possible until, no, even if someone pushes back. That’s the role of Council and of Queen’s Park if they really believe in Transit City.
There is a place for LRT and for subways in Toronto, and if we are to remake the transit plans, this process deserves more than the midnight YouTube announcement of Ford’s election campaign. It also deserves a concerted effort by transit supporters everywhere to fight against slurs of downtown elitism, and to argue strongly for better, cost-effective transit. We need to ensure that the “war on the car” is not replaced, stealthily, by a war on transit.
As for Metrolinx, I can’t help wondering what, exactly, its purpose is. The Board rarely meets in public, and doesn’t discuss much of substance when it does. Major announcements come from the Premier or the Minister, and many of these deal with GO plans that were in the pipeline before the Metrolinx amalgamation. Now we see a Mayor can just tear up part of the plan, an ironic situation considering the grief David Miller endured for trying to get Toronto’s interests recognized at Queen’s Park. If the Tories win the fall 2011 provincial election, Metrolinx and its hoard of consultants may find themselves out of work, and transit may be relegated to a desk at the back of the Ministry of Transportation offices in Downsview.
Meanwhile, my box of “Big Move” documents can join the many other plans in my archives.
Steve Munro 
Gary Webster and TTC officials should make sure that Rob Ford got Council Approval first before they make any big decisions.
If Ford tries to sneak past council debate, let’s call him on his anti-democratic tendencies!
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We can’t give up hope on Transit City yet. Ford still has to get this passed by both the Council and the Province. I’ve already e-mailed my MPP, McGuinty and the Minister of Transportation. Next, I’m going to e-mail my councillor who, despite supporting Ford, might understand the waste involved in stopping what’s started, and how much more expensive subways are to LRT. If we can speak up, and speak loudly enough, we can turn this into an election issue next year. If the Liberals want votes, they’ll have to follow through on their promises in 2007 to build MoveOntario, and the Transit City portion therein.
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I’m not surprised. Unfortunately, I’d be more surprised if it had been built. I’m a ttc bus driver and a resident of toronto and it is clear to me from talking to passengers, neighbors and friends that while every one complains about traffic and slow transit very few citizens actually pay attention to the plans and policies that make a transit plan. And even fewer want to pay money to make it happen. Every one wants a quick fix or a snazzy promise.
These politicians that continuously leave us on the street corner waiting for a bus that never comes (and if it does its 30 years old ) and leave us stuck in traffic are a product of OUR making. They are a reflection of our short sightedness. So congratulations Torontonians. You’ve condemned yourselves to an eternity of traffic jams and freezing in the cold waiting for the next 30 year old bus to never show up. And that’s what we’ll be world famous for !!!
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David Miller might have been his own worst enemy on Transit City. David Miller’s insistance of community consultation on every single little thing resulted on the planning phase being extremely long. Even though, a few contracts have been signed,… it’s not like they’ve started digging yet and will need to fill in the holes (aka Eglinton Subway & Mike Harris Tories).
Let’s see how fast Ford can get the Sheppard subway completed from Downsview to Scarborough Town Centre. As you can see, Ford got a mandate from the voters and Ford isn’t wasting any time with Council or community consultation. Ford knows what he wants done and he’s not going to waste time getting it done.
You know as well as I do, there’s a generation of TTC engineers whose career are define by the Sheppard Stubway,…. they’ll love to see it completed from Downsview to Scarborough Town Centre as first envisioned by Mel Lastman. So it’s not like they’re building it from scratch,… I’m sure over the last 20 years or so these TTC engineers have dreamed about details of completing the Sheppard Subway line.
As for the boring machines to dig the Sheppard subway underground,…. don’t they have a couple of boring machines being built for the Spadina extension. I’m sure the residents of Toronto would much rather see those boring machines be used in Toronto under Sheppard than in Vaughan.
How the heck did those Queen Park Liberals hi-jack the TTC to build a subway to liberal territory in Vaughan anyways? According to Queens Park, low-density Vaughan is much more deserving of subway service than much higher density Toronto which was to get Transit-SHity LRT streetcars,…
Yes, I know,… streetcars can move very efficiently if given it’s own Right Of Way lane. News-update: Anything can move very efficiently if given it’s own Right Of Way lane.
Spadina and the yet to be fully completed StClair streetcars routes are the only two streetcar Right Of Way lane the TTC has currently. And there’s already been 2 fatal pedestrian streetcar accidents on Spadina within the past few months.
Forget about municipal boundaries,… if you look at the density population within the GTA, Yonge and Sheppard is basically the centre. We already have a north-south Yonge subway line running almost the width of Toronto,…. we need a real east-west Sheppard subway line running a good portion of the length of Toronto.
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Why isn’t Metrolinx fighting Ford, and his cronies? Why are provincial Liberals so spineless, they are willing to piss off the one city that votes for them in the election? I am really disappointed in the province and their stance.
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After the election results, I was just angry. Now I’m just sad.
The thing that bugs me is, there never was a war on the car. This was a total fabrication. But some people just don’t drive. Some people can’t afford a car. Some people would rather bike. And at the end of the day, these are things that we should really be encouraging. Bike paths and better street transit is about making alternative options more appealing. It’s about getting cars off the road so that those who do need to drive (there will always be people who need to drive) will be able to do so in less traffic, and we’ll be reducing a lot of dangerous emissions in the process. It seems like a win-win for everyone for me.
Also, I’m one of those ‘downtown elites’ (if you count Dufferin/Eglinton as ‘downtown’) who a) has to drive because of family obligations and b) thinks that we need to improve transit in the suburbs, where Ford’s base is.
I’ve taken transit in the inner suburbs, and it flat out sucks. And there are tons of people in the lowest income level who live out there who can’t afford a car and rely on public transit, and have to put up with hours-long commutes because all they have are infrequent buses. And hey, maybe if it did improve in the suburbs, some of those who do drive might actually choose transit because it’s a better alternative than driving? I can’t be the only one who would rather zone out and read or listen to my iPod while someone else does the driving for me.
Transit City was a cost-effective way of getting transit to the suburbs. And much of it in the core would have been underground. To call it a plan of the ‘downtown elites’ is nuts. We’re going to have one tiny subway extension in the place of miles and miles of new faster transit lines.
Steve, I feel like I’m ranting on your behalf. I know no one in the Ford camp, or any of his supporters will read this, or if they do they will say something about taxes. So I come back to being sad. Sad for the future of the city dictated by the short-sited and selfish.
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The big move was dead the day McGunity decided to “delay” it.
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I’m a little bit surprised. Mike Harris’ regime made sure their first announcement was a cut in welfare rates. I would have thought Ford would have made sure it was the end of the two funding streams.
It might be a pale shallow victory, but the fact that the first major meeting with somebody was with the TTC GM does mean Ford knows he is vulnerable on this file. He had to shape the TTC discussion, and he has done so quite successfully, for today. Mind you, if his modus operandi for the next little while is “I have a mandate. The people have spoken and they want X.”, he won’t succeed for long.
It might be worth remembering that Ford was supported hugely by people who live in the inner suburbs, can’t take the TTC because of the terrible unreliability on the bus routes out there, have less income, and are immigrants. As much as Ford talks about cars, it is the support of people who would willingly take transit if it made sense to them that got him elected. That group of people despises how the TTC does things as a whole, but I believe really does think the TTC can do things better.
As transit discussions move forward, that constituency, who were taken into account by Transit City but not engaged by it, has to be listened to. Subways and other systems will not answer their concerns – Ford knows this which is why the customer service mantra is being thrown out everywhere. Thankfully, the common ground between this constituency and overt transit supporters is that need for better customer service, however that is defined. Its not as necessary a discussion compared to the infrastructure needs; but, I believe those who care about transit’s long term viability in this city can successfully engage and keep the discussion from becoming anti-transit if they engage people on how the TTC can do things better on those long stretches of buses that run through the inner suburbs – a discussion which will also affect how the TTC does things on the downtown street cars, buses and the subway system.
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Here’s what we do:
Let’s assume that Ford gets his way, and Transit City comes to a halt in favour of a program of subway construction. The province agrees to redirect the funds that they’ve committed to the Metrolinx “first five” projects to subway construction (not including funds related to Viva Phase 2). Then they determine the magnitude of the various cancellation penalties that would be incurred for signed contracts related to Transit City.
Now the question is how much subway can be constructed for the remaining funds, using realistic construction cost estimates (I recall Ford’s were aggressively low, and there were questions as to whether even his limited “network” could be constructed using the earmarked TC funds). Then provide a few options of where those xx km could be aligned. Maybe as a follow-up (if time is an issue), determine ridership to illustrate to what extent a subway would be capacity overkill.
Highlight for councillors the limited subway network that can be achieved for the price of TC. Show how Ford’s approach results in a few “winners” at the expense of numerous “losers” — for example, how will Councillor Stintz explain the loss of the Eglinton LRT to her constituents when she campaigned for it (and when Eglinton is widely viewed as the most important of the proposed new lines)? How will northern Etobicoke respond to being shut out when the Finch LRT would have brought travel time savings for that part of the city accessing the subway? Then reiterate that TC may not be plated in gold, but at least allows measurable benefits to be distributed to a wider portion of the city.
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Steve,
I agree with your comments on the lack of leadership from the Provincial government when it comes to transit. And I do not doubt your passion and wisdom when to comes to being a transit advocate. But please, do not assume that “we” Scarberians/North York-ians/Etobicok-ians got it wrong all when we overwhelmingly decided to vote for Rob Ford, including his public opposition of Transit City, despite his near-comic performances in front of the media. I read The Economist, The Atlantic, and the Globe and Mail, not the Toronto Sun and Metro.
Steve: I don’t think those in the suburbs “got it wrong”, but that they were primarily voting for Ford’s “gravy train” mantra and the idea that a new team was required at City Hall. That was the thrust of his campaign, and his transit platform, announced in the middle of the night on YouTube was not stressed unless the issue explicitly came up.
To say that , “It also deserves a concerted effort by transit supporters everywhere to fight against slurs of downtown elitism” is hitting right at the meat of the issue. David Miller and his Transit City plan was exactly an example of “downtown elitism”.
Transit City routes that merely mirrored busy TTC bus routes but failed to capture the masses that don’t take the TTC were obvious examples of the parochial attitude of the Millerites. Less obvious were the desires of the people who attended many of the Transit City meetings, where ideology ruled out over local desires and understanding of how people and goods actually commuted through the neighbourhoods served by the plan. I attended the Scarborough Malvern and Eglinton LRT line meetings, as well as the Kingston Road improvements sessions (not officially part of Transit City) only to be greeted with complete intolerance to local issues and creative ideas to “people moving” in the area. Examples include the de-escalation of car-pedestrian collisions by the use of defined right turn lanes with no turn on red. Transit City staff answer: “we do not support left or right hand turn lanes; it makes for better urban planning”. Or the lack of consideration for paid Green P parking at major terminus for people who may elect to drive to the Transit City stop and pay for parking, despite the obvious success of parking at both TTC subway terminus and GO Transit stations within the city limits.
Steve: Unfortunately, we (the advocates) were extremely badly served by “the professionals” who wanted to do things their own way and were not interested in listening to neighbourhoods. Miller’s fatal flaw was his unwillingness to reign in staff (and not just on the transit file), and this left a trail of pissed off neighbourhood groups and otherwise well-meaning individuals. I ran into the same problem on another file, Union Station.
To me Transit City was definitely about ideology not transit, and an expensive one at that. I am sure most of Rob Ford’s desires will not come to fruition due to previous commitments and city council dynamics, plus some goofy assumptions on his part.
However I certainly do not chide him for representing a disdain for the previous administrations’ contempt for the so-called “suburbs” of Toronto.
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This is the legacy of keeping the legacy system. If streetcars did not survive downtown people would have thought them sexy! I live in the inner burbs and most people I’ve talked to here have ridden streetcars few times and they all complain that it’s too slow. Even if you explain that Transit City will have fewer stop and will run in dedicated lanes they complain that even Spadina and St. Clair are too slow. And every paper was reporting that St. Clair was supposed to be the prototype of what transit city would be. It was doomed from the very beginning I guess. People will always shout for subways as long as politicians have no examples to point to.
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Transit City failed not because it was an LRT but because of the way it would of been implemented. We had a real opportunity to showcase the wide spectrum lrt`s can have, however the ttc fixated towards the streetcar end of the spectrum which didn’t boost good to the public.
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Well this doesn’t surprise me. The TTC has done a horrible job of promoting Transit city due to there failure in operating our legacy system. They do run slow and make obstacles to their designs that make them operate like molasses. Spadina and St Clair are perfect examples.
If subways are too expensive now than in ten years they will be a lot more expensive so what’s the point in debating cost time after time. Since 1980 the TTC has stated it is too costly to extend subways, that’s why we built nothing for 40 years. The Yonge Line was expanded to Finch in 1972. It’s 2010 and it still terminates there, what a joke. We need some subway expansion in this plan.
Eglinton LRT should be underground between Kennedy and Jane and from Jane, run it in a trench to the airport using the Richview expressway lands. Now that would be a true crosstown line that would benefit all regions of our city. The TTC insists on the middle of the road, Spadine style LRT that has turned us off from LRT. TTC has dropped the ball, blame them and their pathetic designs forced upon us without meaningful debate or thought.
Bloor/Danforth should continue to STC and get a west extension to East mall, with a regional bus terminal built there, forget about Kipling. As for Sheppard, it is too late because Miller pushed for this line first and foremost to avoid any future mayor Like Ford, to finish the subway. Eglinton and Finch were needed more so but somehow Miller convinced us we must build Sheppard first. Since contracts have been signed we can bring the subway to Vic park then run the LRT to U of T and Meadowvale with a branch running to STC. All the work on Sheppard to this day has been done to the east. The connection at Vic park would be Like a St George style connection, underground, mezz level, then street level. This would be much better than Don Mills. This should not cost the city any penalties and we can get a better network out of it.
Finch should be studied further with an idea of running it along the Hydro corridor to Hwy 27, via Humber college, Woodbine and then to the airport. Then it would continue south to East Mall subway station, using the 427 corridor. Run it to Downsview station on the west to meet up with the Sheppard extension to Downsview, using the old Bus way, that would then be abandoned after YUS extension opens. There would be a connection to Keele/Finch also. Now that’s better than Transit city.
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I am not a transit expert but a mere insignificant resident of Scarborough. As Steve has said, I voted for Ford because of his message of cutting rampant spending at city hall. Ford’s stand on transit seemed non-existent during the election. It is surprising to me that he hints of subways only, and in off the cuff remarks to the media and not in a more formal setting with the TTC. It is too easy to spout verbiage in front of a camera without thinking. Ford needs more thinking, though the heart is in the right place.
Still, there is scant information about Ford’s intent, so until Ford outlines concrete cancellation plans, there is nothing for the Province to refute. Ford has yet to meet with the Province on transit. What I am saying is that it is premature to conclude anything is canceled or changed until we have more information. Postulations are Ok, but to lose hope so soon seems like giving up. I favour Transit City, at least the Scarborough LRT. Plans are approved, construction is underway, and the costs to back out are enormous. As a pragmatist I hope that Ford will see that scratching the plan will have serious negative financial consequences that Toronto can ill afford.
The debate here is healthy but please do not jump to conclusions just yet.
Steve: As you may guess from the tone and title of my article, my intent is to stiffen the province’s backbone. Can they really risk a situation where a 25-year regional plan has to be redrawn after every municipal election?
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I’ve said this elsewhere … but I think it bears repeating:
As Ford doesn’t seem to object to LRT that doesn’t interfere with traffic, it seems that the central portion of the Eglinton LRT is safe.
On a project-by-project basis the path forward is relatively clear:
Eglinton: Cancel the 6 km of surface LRT from Don Mills to Kennedy and use the savings to pay for the grade separation around Leslie, and from Black Creek to Jane. Result is a 13.5 km LRT grade-separated line from Jane to Don Mills.
Sheppard: Cancel the 13 km of surface LRT from Don Mills to Conlins and use the money to simply extend the Sheppard subway by 2 stops, 2 km to Victoria Park North. There should be a bit of extra money and you build Ford’s proposed Willowdale station and perhaps 1 km on Sheppard West towards Downsview.
Finch West: Cancel the 11 km of surface LRT from Finch West to Humber College and instead build 4.5 km 4-station subway extension from Sheppard to Downsview. A bit of the money comes from Sheppard East LRT project.
SRT: The entire 10 km project is already grade-separated. So in theory you just keep it. Or you could replace the 10 km of LRT with a 5.5 km 2-station subway extension to Scarborough Centre, if you can find a bit of extra $.
So (going with subway for SRT) you replace 53 km of LRT (70 new stations) with 13.5 km of LRT (15 new stations) and 12 km of subway (6 new stations but a loss of 4 existing SRT stations).
What’s striking is how few new stations you serve with 12 km and $4-billion of new subway. 53 km of rapid transit versus 25 km of rapid transit. 70 new stations versus a net of 17 new stations.
Steve: If we are to follow your plan, I would make some adjustments. First on Eglinton, we need to completely rethink the portion from Black Creek to the Airport, and look seriously at the lands adjacent to Eglinton. The TTC did a first-rate job of pissing off the locals with their proposed intersection layouts. On Sheppard, I don’t agree that it’s better to connect from Yonge to Downsview as an alternative to the Finch West LRT (Keele to Humber College). The Finch line provides an important connection to the northwest of the city and really comes into its own because of the subway link at Finch West Station. The SRT as LRT makes sense provided that you also keep the Sheppard East LRT which appears, in a shortened form, to be in your plan.
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Steve: “As for Metrolinx, I can’t help wondering what, exactly, its purpose is”
I have often asked that question myself, and still don’t have an answer. The best I can come up with is that it should look after (transport) planning within the GTHA… but it doesn’t have any teeth to tell municipalities what their official plans should look like, unlike the two-tier areas, where the regional municipality produces a plan to which the city/towns have to conform. It also it doesn’t have any funding stream, unlike the Ministry of Transport, which seems perfectly capable of spending money on big expensive road schemes without special funding announcements from Queen’s Park.
In short, when it comes up with plans, there’s nothing to stop everyone else going “that’s nice” and ignoring it.
On a vaguely positive note, given the financial consequences of cancelling Transit City, it would require a vote by council… and we need only 5 0f the 15 “unknowns” to vote in favour of Transit City to keep it.
If it does get cancelled, then I imagine the province will tell Toronto to pay the cancellation fees itself, and the money will be re-directed to the rest of GTHA. For the cost of Transit City, you could pay for all the VIVA rapidways, the B-line LRT in Hamilton, and still have enough left other to build a large portion (if not all) of the Hurontario/Main LRT in Mississauga/Brampton.
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Of the Globe link I am also aware that Frances Nunziata is pro-Transit City (and a Ford backer as well). Many times she has stated her support for the Eglinton LRT. I even had that confirmed yesterday. She does want the underground part extended from Keele to a portal between Weston and Jane. As speaker she can only vote in the case of a tie.
Steve: No, the Speaker votes at Council on all motions.
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I am greatly displeased with yesterday’s announcements – I really though Ford had bigger fish to fry.
In my opinion the two nails in the (potential) coffin of Transit City were:
1. St. Clair being a disaster to build (time, cost etc.) and the results- creating more gridlock while building what is really the old streetcar route in dedicated lanes.
2. The McGuinty Government stripping the Transit City plan of the funding it needed to be a real network.
If St. Clair had been built as a real example of LRT and we were running new streetcars (with all door loading) down any of the routes there would have been more people convinced that there are alternatives to Stubway lines.
My family lives in the St. Clair/Spadina area and is outraged by the excess traffic the new St. Clair line has caused. They are thrilled Ford will be building “no more St. Clairs.” They may have used the Eglinton Cross-town, or at least benefited from the improved traffic in the mid-town core, however they will never ride the Sheppard Subway or extended RT/Subway. Unfortunately that is the kind of attitude that St. Clair generated.
I must say that at least some of Scarborough will get improved transit.
Steve: Throughout the St. Clair project, people in the TTC just did not “get it” that they were doing fatal damage to the organization’s credibility and the future of transit generally. Even after the line started running fully to Keele again, the line management was intolerably bad, except when a supervisor who took his job seriously was on duty. All of the problems of bunching and erratic service that the right-of-way was supposed to correct remained thanks to “supervision” that left much to be desired. The Commission, more interested in photo ops than in good service, lets management get away with this sort of behaviour.
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I think it is important to point out that Ford is merely doing what Miller did before him. The way I and many others saw it, Miller and his team purposely proposed the Sheppard LRT in such a way as to permanently remove any future chance of extending the Sheppard subway. It was short-sighted, and created yet another illogical forced transfer on our rapid transit network. Then, rather than leaving Sheppard for the latter stages of Transit City, it was placed as priority #1. This was wrong on every conceivable level. You don’t build a case for LRT in this city by building the first line on a corridor that will have an annoying transfer to a short stub-way, followed by another transfer to the Yonge subway (the overwhelming majority of Sheppard subway riders head down the stairs and onto Yonge trains). Instead, you start with the centrepiece line – Eglinton – to show how truly flexible and fast an LRT line can be. Then you move on to other lines like Finch and maybe Sheppard. But Miller was determined to try to block any future expansion of the Sheppard subway, and now we’re on the verge of losing Transit City in its entirety. While I am certainly disheartened, I also can’t help but think that Miller had this coming, and that it serves him right for playing politics with the Sheppard line.
Having said that, in light of Ford’s recent discussions with Gary Webster, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the TTC propose that the Sheppard LRT be scrapped in favour of a short subway extension to VP (cost-wise, that would likely be equal to the amount committed for the LRT). In return, the central, underground portion of the Eglinton LRT proceeds, along with the SRT conversion (both of which satisfy Ford’s vision of “no tracks down the middle of our streets”). This would significantly mitigate, if not entirely remove, any cancellation penalties for both the LRT vehicles and tunnel boring machines, since the latter would still be required and the former perhaps reduced in number but replaced with a small additional order of TRs. Definitely not ideal, but cost-wise, this would be the best option.
Steve: One serious flaw in the original TC proposal was that the Mayor and TTC Chair let management get away with their bullshit report on keeping the SRT ICTS technology even though it was clear that an LRT conversion made more sense. The SRT could have been first out of the gate.
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Steve, I think you pretty much nailed it – TC was doomed almost from the start of the munipal election. Ford’s comment “the war on the car is over” clearly was aimed at motorists frustrated dealing with surface transit be it trams or buses. Subways are sold to transit rides as the only was to travel quicky from point A to point B, but leave the roads open for those that prefer to drive (if they have the choice). Winter weather is often cited as another reason for going underground. I too suspect the Provincial government will likely go along with Ford’s plan (they have a serious election to face next Fall which could bring their defeat). I was really hoping to at least some of the TC lines implemented but it seems we have such a negative view of trams here in Toronto I wonder if even the existing trams can survive. Alas, the experience with the current system does not help. This looks so much like 1995 all over again. Ugh!
Steve, much as been said of the potential penalty cost to the City for cancelling TC, but I’m wondering Ford wouldn’t try negotiating with Bombardier to simply cancel the order for legacy and TC trams but then add to the subway car order for the expanded Sheppard and BD lines to remove at least some of those costs? Is it even worth trying to lobby the current council? The councillor elected in my ward (35) stated her opposition to TC and strongly favoured subways (she also opposes bike lanes, though I’m personally not a huge fan of them).
Phil
Steve: The TC trams are actually a provincial order, but there is the larger context of what will happen with the city streetcar system (I suspect Ford will drop that shoe as part of his overall “Transportation Toronto” plan early in the new year). Cancellation will attract claims for lost profits, but not for costs that have not actually been incurred. There has been a lot of misinformation on this, and it hurts pro-TC arguments by looking like people are padding the numbers.
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The one thing that has me perplexed over the whole thing is why is Ford rushing so much; or at least why the rush to say Transit City is dead? Simply put, by saying “we’re halting work pending a six week review.” (which is usually political speak for saying it’s dead), he would have allowed his current drunken sailor spending to sink in and lessen the blow. Instead, he is killing the plan and then trying to figure out if there are any viable alternatives. Here’s hoping that city council has more common sense.
And just as an aside, I’m probably not the only one who had a little chuckle when gas prices jumped 4.4 cents the day after the announcement of transit city’s death even though the real reasons were completely unrelated.
Steve: Ford clearly wants to show that he is “in charge”, and in the process throws his opposition into disarray reacting to the suddenness of his move. By going on the offensive, he makes swing votes take sides sooner, and, with luck, consolidates his position. It’s a gamble he could lose, but what we see now is that everyone is trying to figure out a “compromise” position with someone who has already made up his mind. Forcing your enemy to give ground just to have a debate is a fairly simple tactic requiring only the will to bull ahead with your own, unalterable position.
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Steve: If we are to follow your plan, I would make some adjustments.
Heck, I’d make some adjustments as well! But I don’t see what else one could do without breaking Ford’s edict to not have any LRT mixing with traffic.
With what I’m suggesting, there is still a possibility a future council can extend Eglinton on the surface … or build a shortened Sheppard East LRT and Finch West LRT. I don’t believe this is the best plan for Toronto, but it’s what achieves Ford’s criteria without cancelling the centre of the Eglinton line.
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This could play out in Rob Ford’s Favour…
The meeting specifically says that Rob Ford is not against light rail, he just wants to ensure everything is underground.
Solution:
Build Eglinton Cross-town LRT from Jane till Kennedy underground. This is a major achievement as your essentially duplicating the bloor-danforth subway!
Then convert the scarborough RT to light rail and through route the cross-town with this route. If there is still funds left, complete the extension to Malvern.
Ford will then be able to boast a complete ride from Malvern till Jane (and eventually airport via expressway lands)
Why does Ford win?
Contract for LRV remains. Use 3 car trains from the start for the one long continous line from Malvern till Jane
The TBM ordered can be put to use as planned. No waste there either.
Ford is very rigid on total car-transit segregation….nothing says that it has to be a subway vehicle per say…
We still lose Sheppard (not a fan), Finch (big fan) but we get everything else.
This would also ensure that Ford’s plan to extend the bloor-danforth subway is no longer necessary if a direct connection from yonge and eglinton to scarborough town is possible!
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Steve you commented: “The TC trams are actually a provincial order, but there is the larger context of what will happen with the city streetcar system (I suspect Ford will drop that shoe as part of his overall “Transportation Toronto” plan early in the new year). ”
Would that “other shoe” be the official announcement of phasing out downtown streetcar routes and replacing with buses as he had mused during the campaign? (I’m guessing those buses won’t have bike racks mounted on them either?).
As for suggestion in some postings that the SRT conversion to LRT surviving – before TC was adopted by the previous council, most Scarborough councillors had been pushing to extend the BD line to STC and I suspect that would ulimately be the push by a Ford council. Aside from the SRT often over-capacity, the other appeal of a subway is having a continuous route to the Yonge line. I also see a similar logic with extending the Sheppard line east to at least connect with STC. However the cost of doing so with be many time more than the original plan, improving service for far fewer riders. As for making the Eglinton line completely underground, that too would increase the cost hugely with relatively little benefit in speed. Interesting I think I read that Gary Webster muse one way to reduce the cost of a subway-only approach would be build for LRVs (I saw just that in Stutgart).
I will certainly write to my (new) councillor, with CC to Ford and Stintz, if only to show not all residents in Scarborough are pushing for subways…
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Steve, I’ve followed your site with increasing interest for the last several years, as yours is the only resource on Toronto transit I’ve come across where the content seems to be more professionally researched and analyzed and up to date than any of the ‘official’ media or government resources on transit matters in the GTA.
Over the past forty years as a resident of Toronto and parts north, I’ve avoided driving in the GTA as much as possible, infinitely preferring to take transit wherever available. Not so much out of eco purity, to be honest, but rather because I find the cost in time, money and aggravation of sitting in a car in ‘the worst commute in North America’ literally maddening in every sense.
Ever since I first rode the old electric streetcars in Vancouver (by myself) as a little kid in the late 1950s and early 1960s, I have preferred the combination of walking, biking and riding transit as the most agreeable and humane way to get around real, largely walkable cities.
The ‘unreal’ car centric non-cities that we’ve allowed to be built since the early 1960s are, in my opinion, the worst form of urban blight and miserable development yet invented. And they are a horror to have to drive in during the busy parts of the day.
Low density, car centric sprawl crapscapes now surround virtually every pre-1960s town and city in North America, and the post 1960 growth of the old City of Toronto into today’s GTA is one of the most spectacularly bad examples of the lot, in terms of imposing high cost, consumption of time and resources and inefficiency to the task of ‘just getting around’.
I suspect that when Mr. Ford sees a streetcar hogging a lane in the downtown old city of Toronto, he might feel that loading the Red Rocket onto a catapult and firing it into Lake Ontario would open up lots of space on the road, and save lots of time for him and his SUV.
However, ditching electric surface transit in favor of eventually, maybe, adding a few kilometres of subway, which will cost a fortune and take the better part of a decade to complete, would just be a bait and switch ploy that would result in more congestion on GTA roads, rather than any substantial solution to Toronto’s transportation system problems.
I use the term ‘bait and switch,’ because pretending to solve a GTA wide problem with a couple of short subway extensions is nothing like a comprehensive solution.
People who’d be willing to use an extensive and convenient transit system can’t travel on LRT or streetcar lines that don’t exist. And buses are a lousy substitute, from the point of view of the passenger.
I’ve spent many thousands of hours on a spectrum of diesel and hybrid buses, electric trolley buses, streetcars, subways, LRT and diesel GO trains over the past fifty years, and I have to say that buses are the lousiest of all those forms of transportation: noisy, bumpy, slow and uncomfortable.
Your observations of poor TTC supervision of streetcar spacing are well taken.
The TTC management, supervision and planning blunders you’ve pointed out over the years are disheartening. Mediocre TTC planning and management have likely helped sour the public’s view of electric street transit and transit generally.
I wish there was a more effective channel for positively critiquing and improving TTC quality control.
It breaks my heart to see the potential for a large scale LRT network across the GTA and in other Ontario urban areas seemingly ebbing away, due to a lack of of the political will, communication skills and managerial competence to pursue a difficult, expensive but necessary transit infrastructure program over the long term.
I haven’t given up on the possible future of public transit in the GTA- I still live 600 metres from a GO station in Newmarket, and for me some form of ‘the better way’ is still usually a viable choice.
But after a couple of years of cautious optimism regarding the potential for real transit improvements in Canada’s largest metropolitan region, I’m currently feeling pretty low. I mean, if we can’t do it here, with over four million people in a small region, where else in Canada are we likely to?
Not giving up, just getting pretty worried.
For a while, I really thought we had a chance to increase the percentage of total person/miles traveled by transit vs automobile in the GTA…
…Which, ironically, if Transit City had come to pass, would have resulted in faster commutes and less frustration for Mr. Ford and his car-centric constituents, as people riding on LRT would not have been clogging the roads in their cars.
Please keep up the great work.
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Steve said: “… many swing votes on Council will be pressured to support Ford’s position and threatened with dire consequences for going over to the opposition.”
Just out of curiosity, what are the possible consequences? The Mayor has no authority to fire a Councilor …
Steve: Come budget time, those Councillors will want favoured projects to be protected from cuts. They will want other favours from the Mayor and his core team, especially the Executive Committee. The Mayor may not be able to fire a Councillor, but he can make it very difficult for them to accomplish anything.
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While I was uncertain about Transit City, I’m a bit sad to see it apparently die here. Word now that the province may force Ford’s hand somewhat and demand a vote. Who knows, they may even withhold provincial money if they don’t like his new subway-centric plan.
Alas, this seems to be another legacy of Miller and the current TTC regime. As many have noted, St Clair was a mistake that needed major PR rehabilitation. This was never done by the TTC or by Miller. Miller and the left pretended that all was well and their proposal was the best. But they failed to persuade the public and as the Globe points out today, they did not put the whole plan of TC to vote in council. If this is true, it’s dishonest. (feel free to correct me here, Steve) So if Ford manages to nix it here without a vote, it will almost be poetic justice.
Again, I’m not happy that the plug has been pulled on TC but it seems almost fitting. You reap what you sow.
Steve: The way that transit proposals work, like it or not, is that the TTC is an independent agency. The TTC approved TC, but did not have to submit it to Council for ratification. Council only gets involved when the TTC wants to spend some money that is paid for by the City. Last summer, one of the last transit-related acts of the outgoing Council was to pass a bylaw reining in the TTC so that it could not make commitments that would affect future budgets without Council approval, and more generally requiring the TTC to operate by the same rules as other departments and agencies. This has been a long-standing problem with the TTC whose management sometimes felt they were not subject to Council control.
As things stand, it is still hypothetically possible for the new Commission to rescind approval of TC, but the political situation is such that doing so without Council ratification would be unwise, and would lead to motions at Council to direct the TTC to reverse its position.
And, yes, TC was not put to a vote at Council. I helped the Globe writers dig through Council and TTC minutes to verify this because I, too, was concerned that the story be reported correctly.
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“The Mayor may not be able to fire a Councillor, but he can make it very difficult for them to accomplish anything.”
I hope this isn’t an attack on Mayor Ford. Stuff like this isn’t new. This happens all the time and isn’t endemic of the political right.
Steve: It’s not an attack on the Mayor, it’s a statement of political fact. When a Mayor starts his term, however, with a unilateral action that is not his to take, it suggests a contempt for the rights and responsibilities of Council as a whole. As a critique of Ford, I am more concerned about his failure to understand he did not get over 50% of the vote, and many who supported him were far more concerned with the “gravy train” than with subways. Moreover, Council is not overwhelmingly anti-transit city, and this suggests that it was not a defining issue in the election. Ford is overplaying his mandate.
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Is it wrong for me to want to fully embrace my “downtown elitist” status (conferred by those comment-mongers trolling the various media websites) and say that for all I care, Ford can shut down Transit City, run up against a brick wall for his subway plan once the deficit hawks have their say at Queen’s Park and Ottawa, and the suburbanites who support him can enjoy idling on the DVP and shivering in bus shelters for the next umpteen years?
As it stands, I have access to four surface routes within a ten minute walk from home, which can get me to the subway fairly quickly. Even when the axe comes down on TTC subsidies under the new regime, I should still be fine. Of course, Ford has said nothing so far about what he will do with fares, so that might be a problem. But honestly, if this is what Ford voters want, then I say let’s give it to them, high and hard.
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If you really want to save Transit City, you have to show how a similar model would be a success. I think that this is the greatest weakness in Transit City. While there have been many lines drawn on a map, these are based on speculative numbers that may not have any bearing on reality. Thus you need a pilot project to show how Transit city would work.
If TTC management actually tried to run Rocket services on the proposed LRT lines, I think that it would be a showcase on what LRT can do. For example, Finch West only has 4 branches that run locally (36A,B,C,D). How are people supposed to believe that having LRT level service would be a benefit. Compare that to Sheppard East. It has the local (85) and the 190 Rocket. From 8 years of service we know that LRT spacing of 800m to 1 km would work well, and would increase ridership.
Rob Ford doesn’t believe that LRT can do the job because most of the services running through his ward are local routes or sporadic express routes (45E, 191, 192). If Rob Ford lived in Scarborough it might have been a different story.
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I’ve come across the information on a rally planned on Saturday that was announced at Transit Toronto:
I wonder why it’s not announced elsewhere. Even on TT site it’s virtually dissapeared and I’m not sure if they still going to hold the rally. In this respect that would be a good idea to post an announce (or smth) here and at TT until Saturday noon (on the top of the page). Otherwise we are risking to get a sorry sight with an opposite effect.
Steve: Here is the description as it currently exists on Facebook:
This looks like a canvass, not a rally. Given the number of constituents at Yonge-Eglinton who live in high rises to which a non-election based canvass has no legal access (and canvassers can be thrown out), I am not sure this is the greatest scheme.
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I expect the announcement to get rid of all streetcars to happen shortly.
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Andrew Marshall said: “As it stands, I have access to four surface routes within a ten minute walk from home”
So do I, but most of them are streetcar routes, which Ford wants to get rid of. Like it or not, he is the mayor of all Toronto, and I can only hope he realizes that he represents those of us who didn’t vote for him. If he gets rid of the Bathurst Streetcar, I’m not going to be happy.
Steve: But you will have wonderful clean, environmentally sensitive buses! What more could you ask for?
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Steve:
You are too nice and civil (and that is a compliment and not a criticism.) However, I am a bit more blunt. Stephen Cheung has the nerve to suggest that your comments are an “attack” on our new Mayor. Whatever fantasy world Stephen chooses to live in is his business. But the fact is that our new Mayor is an ideologically driven person who does not listen and is very badly misinformed on vital issues. He justifies selfishness and intolerance as personal virtues and shows no respect to those of us who have divergent views.
Mayor Ford is not a “nice guy” who needs just a couple of e-mails from others to moderate his views. He is an extremist and is fixed in his opinions. They are not nice.
Mel Lastman included people of all stripes in his circle and David Miller did too. Mr. Ford has excluded all inner city and leftish councillors from his inner circle. We are faced with four years of combat against an ideologue who wants to destroy Toronto as we know it. (And as I love it.) This is not a slight change in direction. It is war. When Mike Harris declared war on Toronto, at least it was external. When my leader hates me and what I love, it is much more scary.
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In yesterday’s Scarborough Mirror that arrived on our porch was the yet another article on Ford’s plan to kill TC. What is interesting are the quotes from TTC GM Gary Webster regarding possible options to meet Ford’s mandate that future transit expansion be underground in that it does not exclude the possiblilty of some of the TC line surviving but run entirely underground, though the costs for that option would be marginally less than building full-scale subway lines. That option would at least allow for the order of TC vehicles to go ahead though my sense is that the push would be to implement Ford’s vision of extending the Sheppard and BD lines and not build any of the TC lines.
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TTC is partly to blame for doing such a terrible job of running the legacy system, which poisoned the conversation on LRT to the point where reasonable people (who have no experience in transit planning but are otherwise intelligent) think that transit city would mean a bunch of pay-on-board bumbling CLRVs with too many stops.
Meanwhile, Ford’s push for the Sheppard subway makes no sense. There is no utility in pushing Sheppard farther east — why is no one talking about going west to Spadina instead? It would be far more helpful to tie the line into Spadina as a spur, solving about 12 problems at once. And it would not conflict with Sheppard East LRT. Why is no one talking about this?
Video
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Steve, do you have any take on the internal politics of the TTC:
Does the TTC (or some major faction within the TTC) really, really support Transit City?
Are subway construction fans a major power bloc within the TTC?
Given that the TTC staff didn’t always much listen to the Commission, why are they (possibly, apparently) rolling over and displaying their furry tummy to the new mayor?
Steve: There is a subway faction within the TTC that has almost been a fifth column through the Miller years, and there is also an LRT faction. Right now the subway folks must be like hogs at the trough.
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TTC is partly to blame for doing such a terrible job of running the legacy system, which poisoned the conversation on LRT to the point where reasonable people (who have no experience in transit planning but are otherwise intelligent) think that transit city would mean a bunch of pay-on-board bumbling CLRVs with too many stops.
I think management at the TTC are completely to blame for the lack of public support for transit in this city.
– They can’t manage existing streetcar lines to provide a proper headway, blaming operators/staff, operator scheduling, traffic, the union, passengers and everyone except the people responsible – TTC management.
– Why would TC lines be any different from the legacy network? A Finch or Islington bus every ~3min (even if two or three are bunched – at most it’s a 10min wait) is much preferable to 3 or 4 bunched up LRT’s and then no service for the next 30-60min – assuming they aren’t being short turned for an even longer wait.
– Poor project execution/management – St. Clair & al.
– Poor design – see the Waterfront/Spadina streetcar stop design and lack of priority signaling.
– Lack of community input – how many community consultations have been presented where the community is presented the TTC way, and the community ideas are dismissed?
– Poor communication – What are the deliverables? Will it improve how will the LRT design be different (ideally better) from the legacy streetcar network? They trump a different track gauge and all door loading, but fail to address substantial questions: will it operate down the middle of the street, on the side of a street in a private right of way, functioning signal priority, loss of driving lanes. If this was public knowledge, then public support would increase (or rightly decrease).
I’ll be within walking distance of the Finch West line if it’s ever done, I want to see TC built, but I doubt the TTC could do a successful job of building and operating it.
Are there any recent projects has the TTC completed where they haven’t had a plethora of excuses as to why it couldn’t be done right (or in a reasonable time frame)?
Steve: A few points of clarification. St. Clair was not just the TTC’s screwup but also the City’s and the ward Councillors who demanded last minute changes, or who abdicated their responsibilities preferring to rail against the project rather than work to ensure it was done well. The gauge choice for TC is down to Metrolinx, not the TTC, who had planned on a common gauge. In general, I agree with your observations.
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Better transit for all of this city in the form of 85+ kms of LRTs (not just 6 kms of subway to Scarborough Town Cetre) = peace with the car, as busses are removed from these busy streets and people might actually take transit that works, thus removing cars from the streets.
I agree with Michael Greason’s comments above. I had hoped that Ford would have been content to be elected on stopping the gravy train but now he seems to think that his supporters also elected him based on his “brilliant” transit plan. I wonder if he’ll follow up on his plan to paint the curbs to denote parking/no-parking areas, which will be invisible for half the year, covered by piles of snow. So much for respect for taxpayers. And I do fear that you’re right Steve – this whole thing will morph into a “war on transit”. Blech.
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Does anyone know why G&M didn’t ask those 15 councillors or those 15 councillors didn’t answer?
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