Update 2: The TTC now expects to have all posted schedules updated by Christmas Eve, subject to delays caused by the weather. Please hold your cards and letters, folks, about places they have missed at least into mid-January.
Original Post:
This Sunday (November 23) will see a large number of service improvements both during peak and off peak periods to implement the next major step in the Ridership Growth Strategy.
The three major changes in this round are:
- Restoration of service during all operating periods (except overnight) on almost all routes. This will eliminate the “does my bus run now” problem faced by riders on many parts of the system.
- A maximum 30-minute headway (a proposed 20-minute maximum will be examined for possible implementation in late 2009).
- Improvement of loading standards so that the acceptable average maximum load on buses is lower than previously with the result that more buses will serve crowded routes.
The details of the changes have been discussed before on this site, but what I am interested to learn via comments is rider experiences over the next few weeks on the affected routes.
- Is there a noticeable reduction in crowding?
- Do the new off peak services run reliably especially if their headways are 20 minutes or more? Do buses run on time, or on a non-schedule making it hard to plan trips to meet the posted arrival times for buses?
For Queen 501 riders, there will be a new schedule designed to simplify route management. The two services, Neville-Humber and Neville-Long Branch, will be scheduled separately (although headways are supposed to be blended) rather than having cars switch between the two branches. What has your experience been on the 501 for the past month or so, and is there any difference with the new schedule?
Finally, here is the November 23, 2008 Service Summary for those who want all the gory details of the operation.
Update 2 (November 22): To give some idea of the magnitude of the change, here are comparisons of the numbers of buses in service by time period before and after.
Weekdays:
- AM Peak 1411/1505
- Midday 844/879
- PM Peak 1328/1401
- Early Evening 714/749
- Late Evening 395/492
Saturdays:
- Early Morning 502/549
- Late Morning 729/778
- Afternoon 739/788
- Early Evening 525/585
- Late Evening 296/399
Sundays:
- Early Morning 370/421
- Late Morning 572/641
- Afternoon 575/647
- Early Evening 378/466
- Late Evening 256/372
The changes in streetcars in service are quite small, and in some cases removal of vehicles that had been added for construction offset some of the service improvements.
Update 1 (November 20): This afternoon, the TTC issued a press release as follows:
TTC announces service improvements
Sets record of 465 million rides
Beginning this Sunday, November 23, customers of the Toronto Transit Commission will now be able to take almost any bus route in the city between approximately 6 a.m. and 1 a.m., seven days a week.
As part of the TTC’s service improvement plan, all bus routes will now align with the hours of the subway. Routes that used to only operate during peak periods, or midday, will now run during the same hours that the subway operates, with a maximum of 30 minute waiting times. An increase in the number of buses during peak periods will mean an increase in service for customers across Toronto.
Customers have been requesting the TTC to increase services in areas of the city that require reliable transit at all times of the week. For example, the 32D Eglinton West via Emmett route will now operate every 30 minutes or better, seven days a week until 1 a.m., servicing
residents on Emmet Ave. who previously had a lengthy walk to and from TTC services.A full list of new and improved TTC services can be found here.
Steve Munro 
Thanks Steve for coming to the rescue again with the latest service summary. Hopefully this is the last time you have to do this.
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I’m surprised there hasn’t been much information about this yet. The upcoming service changes are on the website, but no press releases, signs, notices, etc.
One bus I take frequently is going from weekday-daytime only to full service, and I’m surprised there hasn’t been a note posted anywhere to alert people.
I’d have thought the TTC would be trumpeting this one loudly!
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Steve,
I’m just wondering how long these service improvements can last given the current financial situation. Do you know what the increase in the TTC operating budget this service has caused? I’m certainly in favour of more service, but I’m just worried the City and the Province will not able keep pace with the TTC’s operating budget requirements.
Steve: Details can be found in the 2003 Ridership Growth Strategy document. Provision for this was included in the 2008 and 2009 TTC operating budgets.
If Council finds itself looking to trim transit funding again, there will have to be a serious discussion about just how committed they are to running good transit service. They won’t have Mike Harris to blame this time around.
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How about replacing the pervasive ads in the system for a service that does not exist (Transit City), with ones about service that will exist a week from now?
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I still find that the 501 is still unreliable west of Humber.
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“If Council finds itself looking to trim transit funding again, there will have to be a serious discussion about just how committed they are to running good transit service. They won’t have Mike Harris to blame this time around.”
Commitment to providing good transit service does not mean that they run everyday service on routes that do not justify it. We all know my views on this improvement and I support most of them save a few “questionable” routes. Discussion with more of my conservative friends around this development revolve around the issue of why we are increasing service on known underperforming and unneccessary routes. One of them is waiting for service to be restored on Prince Edward north of Bloor (cut in ’96) and says until this happens, he doesn’t support this initiative.
I’m taking a wait and see approach on this, but I’m not betting on the majority of these route changes to be a success. And I’m also waiting for certain newspaper outlets to report on this and see how they react. Once I find out, I’m posting the article here.
And yes, I tire of the Transit City ads. Previously when they had major service changes, pamphlets were made available on the subway and all surface routes. I don’t see those pamphlets as of yet…. If the TTC botches this rollout of improved service, either by lack of marketing or planning, it will be a permanent black eye on the TTC for several years to come.
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I disagree and agree with Mel. I have observed that the Transit City advertisement are attracting alot of attention of riders on the subway and this should translate into support of the project. But Mel does have a good point in that the Rider Growth Strategy does mean that there are now more buses and streetcars connecting with the subway and that commuters should consider the TTC not just for going to work and back.
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“How about replacing the pervasive ads in the system for a service that does not exist (Transit City), with ones about service that will exist a week from now?”
I agree. It seems like the TTC is getting too about service that is 5-15 years away. They might as well advertise the new service changes to try and make an effort to attract new riders.
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I’m very excited for slightly less crush-loaded buses in the morning rush. *fingers crossed* This is particularly exciting in light of the scary-sounding service cuts AND fare hikes with the MTA in New York.
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One the one hand, a transit service is that–a service provided in case it needs to be used. And it is truly necessary if we are trying to encourage people to keep their cars at home.
On the other hand, 161 LAWRENCE-DONWAY : I bet 80% of these trips will be just the driver from end to end. Increase that to 100% on Dec. 25th.
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In 1867, Toronto had a population of 45,000 people and the Toronto Street Railway Company had horse-drawn streetcars on its streets. Canada’s population (3.5 million) lived 80% on the farm. At that time, Canada subsidizing urban transit was not needed. However, for the rural folks, it did help Canadian Pacific Railway in building its cross-country line and later creating the Canadian National Railway to take over troubled railways.
Today, Toronto has a population of over 2,503,281 and has 3 HRT subways. Canada’s population of 33,435,000 now has 80% living in urban areas. Canada should now subsidize its urban railways and transit, like every other western country on Earth.
(The GTA has a population of 5,555,912, which exceeds the 1867 Canadian population.)
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Stephen Cheung says:
“I’m taking a wait and see approach on this, but I’m not betting on the majority of these route changes to be a success. And I’m also waiting for certain newspaper outlets to report on this and see how they react. Once I find out, I’m posting the article here.”
Yes, I can see the Toronto Sun story already: “Empty buses prowl city late at night. The TTC rolled out its trumpeted service improvements which include having buses roaming the streets on poorly-performing routes until 1 AM. Buses are running nearly empty all evening, while costing tens of thousands of dollars to operate on some routes. TTC Driver Vincent King says “I’ve only had a couple of people all week on this route. I’ve been the only person on the bus almost every night.” The service improvements are estimated to cost $X millions to make bus service run at the same hours as subway service, but running buses with lonely drivers on routes where nobody is riding makes no sense given the tough times. Service improvements are laudable but running empty buses is slap in the face to Toronto taxpayers … etc. etc.”
Of course some routes will be poor performers initially, but as has been said here before, if you’re building a network of transit across the city, you have to make the commitment to service all areas. Give people time to adjust, sometimes it takes a few months. News reporting will show want it wants to show. I recall a news report on the Bay Urban Clearway when the TTC boosted service on the Bay trolley coach to the point where there were some 30 coaches running in rush hour. The news reporter was standing at Bay & Wellesley just after 6 PM on a Friday night when all the coaches were heading back north to go out of service and saying that the improvement obviously wasn’t catching on as most of the buses were empty. At 4:30 it would have been a different story, but that wasn’t the story they wanted to show.
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Robert Lubinski said:
TTC Driver Vincent King says “I’ve only had a couple of people all week on this route….
Boy, are you giving away your age! Vincent King. Love it!
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Hi Steve.
At the risk of dragging this off the topic of service improvements, I think that both Transit City and the new services should be promoted by the TTC. Consider, for a moment, what Transit City represents. It is a long term commitment to improve transit service and increase ridership. It is the ultimate extension of what the TTC is starting now.
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The 101 Downsview Park bus is always empty it seems. The only 2 people I’ve ever seen on that bus were me and my friend – who wanted to ride such a mysteriously empty route.
Steve: It’s a political route. After all the money Ottawa showered on us for that park, the least we can do is ride the bus and visit it. Eventually it will even have a subway station!
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Steve said:
Steve: It’s a political route. After all the money Ottawa showered on us for that park, the least we can do is ride the bus and visit it. Eventually it will even have a subway station!
But THIS would be a perfect route for a Swan system! A Park! Too bad the City of Ottawa came up with a plan to save its’ swans!
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Robert: The whole point is that if they were going to do major improvements, they should have done this to routes in which there would be a market for them. Known poor performers are like that because despite everything you throw at the targeted area, there will never be ridership. This applies to certain areas in general known to have this problem, (*cough*Bridle Path*/cough*), and office/industrial areas which have no ridership during evenings and weekends.
Besides, I already have my predictions on which routes will be on the chopping block. We’ll see if I’m right in six months. Then there will be discussions on whether or not the initiative, at least on those routes, was really worth it.
As for Steve’s comment about things being political on the 101, I think this applies to the entire RGS plan itself. And I don’t mean the use of federal or provincial money, but the fact that not enough discussion on whether or not this should be a targeted or blanket improvement.
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I find it somewhat ironic that the people who protest the most about “wasting” their tax dollars on running empty buses at all hours are the very same people who willingly invest tens of thousands of their own hard-earned dollars in a private vehicle that sits parked for most of its life. Part of the rationale for the Ridership Growth Strategy is to make transit as “automatic” as possible — not having to ask which route runs when, removes one more obstacle to choosing transit. One down, eleventy million to go!
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While more service is excellent, one wonders how many more buses the TTC can put on the road without choking themselves off.
Looking quickly at the new vs. previous service summary, I see that in the morning rush hour the Finch East express is going from 30 to 36 buses, Steeles East is going from 34 to 36 and Steeles West from 30 to 32. How many more buses can physically operate out of the bus loop at Finch Station? It’s already getting mighty crowded there on a typical morning.
(And adding more buses to serve the same number of platforms isn’t going to improve things too much; waiting for the Finch Express in the morning, it’s already a frequent occurrence to see buses leave the station without bothering to pick up passengers because there is already a bus in the bay. Alternately, some drivers will stop in the roadway to let riders on, which can create a mini-traffic jam behind them.)
I’m somehow guessing the service increases won’t come with supervisors with eyes on the pavement to sort these things out at ground level. The Finch East service (morning rush-hour) is down to a theoretical combined headway of 1:10, but it’s going to take some effort to not have that leaving the station in clumps of three or four.
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“For example, the 32D Eglinton West via Emmett route will now operate every 30 minutes or better, seven days a week until 1 a.m., servicing residents on Emmett Ave. who previously had a lengthy walk to and from TTC services.” Wow! My neigbourhood’s own 15 microseconds of fame. Next thing you know, they may put in one or two LRT’s for our neighbourhood. Wait a minute, they are (Jane and Eglinton)! Oh, oh, now our property values may go up.
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Looks like only the National Post picked up the press release – a smallish blurb on the Posted Toronto page.
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At least Eleventy million is accurate.
But remember that the TTC is a public institution. And all public institutions require some sort of accountability and the knowledge that their money won’t go to waste.
Yes, I own my own private vehicle, but only because I have to, where I work requires me to have my own car. But while I don’t mind these changes, there are many others that will. The whole idea is to ensure that the TTC does not open itself up as cannon fodder. There ARE people who want to cut service down to the absolute bone. Forget about losing routes like the poorly used 115, 120, and 162, the impact is much worse. Steve had posted a map of which services could likely get the boot in that scenario and that is not what we want.
While I wish the TTC godspeed in this initiative, I would not be surprised if the voices in support of “barebones” service get louder. AFAIK, Councillor Ford is against the RGS and in favour of barebones service. You do not want to get him wound up.
Steve: Someday Councillor Ford’s constituents, who are always clamouring for better service, will figure out that they are not well represented by his antics at Council.
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I have to agree with Stephen Cheung.
Although a residential route not running at all times may be a disinsentive to use public transit for some people, so are the sardine-packed peak time buses. Therefore, X dollars allocated for running near-empty buses could, alternatively, be used to purchase a few more buses and hire more drivers to enhance the peak period service on the major routes. I have no stats, but strongly suspect that the latter investment would bring more new riders to the system.
I realize that the capital-versus-operational expenses issue might come into play. The use of existing buses and drivers off-peak is an entirely operational expense, whereas the purchase of new buses is a capital expense paid for from another source. But at the end of the day, there is only one public purse, hence there must be a way to use those funds in the most efficient manner.
From the carbon emission standpoint, a bus with two passengers is a greater offender than a single-occupant passenger car. The bus is heavier and consumes more fuel. The carbon load generated by a bus must, therefore, be distributed between at least 10 or 15 passengers to match, or get smaller than, the load generated by a car.
Steve: But the fact those buses run at all hours is a factor in people chosing to use transit and possibly avoiding buying a car (or a second car) in the first place. Once someone has a car, they use it.
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I cannot stand that “wasting my tax dollars” argument. Those “tax dollars” go towards our overstaffed police force, our fire department, maintaining the roads, etc, etc.
It really irks me, that transit is constantly used as a scapegoat for saving money, but we can never take away from other services.
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Steve said: But the fact those buses run at all hours is a factor in people choosing to use transit and possibly avoiding buying a car (or a second car) in the first place. Once someone has a car, they use it.
Steve, while some people might change their mind about owning a car due to the factor you mentioned, are there any studies showing this is a major factor?
My reasoning (not sure if other people view it same way): if I take public transit to / from work every day, I won’t bother buying a car just to visit friends two evenings per month. If the local bus does not run in the evening, it is cheaper to call a cab two times per month than to pay car insurance.
If I do have a car, that’s for one of two reasons:
1) Use it to travel to / from work. The choice here might depend on the speed of public transit versus the car for my origin / destination pair, on the availability of parking spaces, on the level of comfort in public vehicles … but not on the off-peak service on secondary routes.
2) Take public transit to / from work, but use the car occasionally for special trips: with the kid and a bunch of stuff for him; groceries load once a week; to a provincial park in summer. Actually, this is the case for me. Again, no dependency on the off-peak service on secondary routes. A better off-peak local service might switch a small fraction of my trips from the car to the bus, likely with a negative impact on carbon footprint as the bus uses more fuel. But it won’t change the number of cars in my household: we’ll keep our single car anyway, and we don’t need the second.
On the other hand is the impact a better peak-time service would have on the ridership. Somehow it seems to me that even a modest improvement there will bring more new riders to the system than an equivalent investment in the off-peak service.
Steve: Sixty percent of all TTC riding is in the off-peak, and yet we plan and operate the transit system focussed on the peak period because it’s (a) shorter and (b) the demand is much more concentrated. Thc TTC is unlike many transit systems that have poor to nil off-peak demand, and this affects many factors in its operations including fleet planning, staffing and maintenance, not to mention the fact that people can actually use it at all hours of the day.
Some here are fixating on a small number of routes with new 30 minute services. Some of those routes dwindled to that level or worse thanks to the recursive effects of service cuts (26 Dupont and 74 Mt. Pleasant are good examples), not because there was no demand. A light demand was driven away by making the service so inconvenient that nobody used it. The real challenge, once we’ve driven the demand away, is to get it back again.
Yes, there will be the odd lonely driver, but if you look at a lot of the mainstream routes, there are lonely drivers on them already for parts of the run. That’s the nature of the system. Some parts are very busy, others are not.
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We can debate it all we want, but the best way to figure out if people will embrace these upgrades on (typically) poor routes is to make it happen. If you build it, they will come….and if not, we learned by trying and we’ll try again with a better way. It’s as simple as that.
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Well, I’m excited about the service improvements, finally a way to get home after 10pm, rather than sitting at Kipling station for up to an hour, and last bus being at 12am, now I’ll be able to actually DEPEND on a bus route, instead of having a choice of up to an hour wait in a unsafe subway station with some really scary types and darkened bus platforms or a 20 minute walk home in dark areas, Now I’ll have a choice of 2 routes to get home, essentially giving me 15 minutes service to my area…
One thing that intrigues me is the 30 minutes service on the 55 Warren Park….. that’s going to be one lonely bus driver….
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As I’ve ranted on my own soapbox, I think that these “empty routes” are in fact critical to building ridership and therefore revenue.
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I have a bone to pick with the hype of the press release. It sounds at first like bus route service will be available to meet the last train of the night at every station. On further reading though, it looks like some buses have their final trip at 1am, which is in many cases more than an hour before that last train!
Am I reading this right?
Steve: Yes, in fact, the bus service starts to roll up for the night at 1 am. To put this in context, the last inbound subway trips are at about 1:20 from the terminals, there is a three-way meet at Bloor and Yonge at about 1:55, and these trains reach their respective terminals about 2:15. By then, the last buses on many routes are long gone.
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Having the last bus meet the last train presents it’s own problems. Lets take Finch as our example. The last Steeles East bus leaves at around 2:30, meaning it gets to the end of it’s route close to 3:15. From there it has to deadhead back to the garage. Meanwhile, to meet the first Subway, a bus has to leave the end of the route, heading inbound, at around 4:30. That means it has to deadhead there from the garage. Once you factor everything in, you could be paying your “daytime” labour hours from about 4am to 3:30am. Considering most of the crucial routes have blue-night service, I do not see a problem with ending buses at 1am.
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Maybe they should have made the Blue Night routes with headways of 20 minutes or better at the same time at this implementation.
Do you know if the proposed 20-minute maximum headway for 2009 include the Blue Night network? Most of the Blue Night routes are currently 30 minutes.
And the 905 transit systems do not have any blue night service, yet.
Steve: I believe that the 20 minute maximum only applies to the “regular network” not the night network. This is an interesting question, however, and I will follow up on it. It would be intriguing to compare ridership on the blue night network with that on late evening routes that run more frequently.
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Alas with Jonathan with the observation. Enough people complain after the last 69 via Warden leaves Warden at 1:50am. Every time when I leave one of the last three trains out of Warden, theres at least two people, per train complaining about that to the ticket collector who has locked the bus bay by 1:55am.
You cannot run a bus service that runs with subway hours, until the last hour before the last train leaves, that is incosistent to what they are promoting, and false advertising. This should stand for all routes as well, make the last bus leave five minutes after the last train, then the connections will garner up a chunk of ridership.
Also I would like to expand with the Scarborough RT. The last train leaves last I checked at 1:35am. Why does the RT close forty minutes before the last subway train arrivel at Kennedy? Once again a good chunk of ridership is lost, even a shuttle bus every ten minutes would be good enough till 2:20am. Also, have the last buses leave Scarborugh Centre at 2:35am. Once you fix this you will be surprised, with the last minute ridership.
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Increased bus service will certainly result in an increase in bus ridership, but, and this is key, not necessarily on the new buses. If you don’t have to worry about missing the last bus, you’re more likely to use transit rather than drive. Even if you don’t actually take the last bus, if it wasn’t there, you wouldn’t have taken the earlier bus. It’s important when one analyzes a transit network to take into account these network-level effects that aren’t obvious just from looking at a given bus or bus route in isolation.
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What you are writing is true, though I think there must be some creative ways we can get around that. Perhaps the last bus meets the last train, does its route and then becomes a blue night bus.
I don’t know if TTC scheduling is that advanced to handle that.
On the topic of Blue Night, I am frustrated the Yonge bus servive improvements have not been met with some improvements to Bloor-Danforth as well.
I’ve had a few cold 20-30 minute waits at Yonge and Bloor for a bus lately.
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There is [a need] to make a serious expansion to the Blue Night network. First, the TTC should add more buses to the 300 Bloor and 320 Yonge night routes. These routes should never go below 7:30 service, that means two buses every 15 minutes.
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There is an oddity with the TTC’s Blue Night Network in that the 307 Eglinton West and 300A Bloor-Danforth provide early morning service to the YYZ airport, which is in Mississauga territory. However, there is no Mississauga Transit blue night service for the mississaugians themselves to use to get there, when there should be.
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Well everyone I used the 132 Milner bus today! What a great alternative then a 38-116 combination, or a 129-85 transfer from Scarborough Centre station, to the Wal-Mart at Morningside/401! And for the record there was five people who boarded the 132 this afternoon! (Myself Included) Looking good early on everybody!
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VP = Victoria Park
The storm on the 18th. killed the 169 Huntingwood bus, which goes every 30 minutes, from Don Mills station it leaves :15 :45.
the first and last buses of the AM and PM rush hours are empty (as I am sure it happens to the last running bus of every route), ANYTHING happens and the 169 suffers, a cat fars in Ulaan-Bator Mongolia and the 169 will lose one of it’s buses.
During that storm I arrived at 6:03pm, so I had to wait 12 minutes for the 6:15, buses are usually a few minutes early and leave at :15 and :45, anyways….by the time the bus came it was 6:49, so a few options happen
6:15 bus got cancelled and the 6:45 was late
no 6:45 bus and the 6:15 was extremely late.
I saw the 85 sheppard bus come every 2-3 minutes, I saw way more 25 (since there are north and southbound buses), I even saw 3 167 buses, and I think at least 4 224 (169 & 224 load in the same bay), even the 10 Van Horne I saw a few of those buses….
Now there is a new 169A which is basically the Huntingwood bus mixed with the 10 Van Horne bus.
How do they think of these upgrades?
The 10 Van Horne bus should be out of Leslie Station and then go up Leslie to Van Horne then go east to VP and loop to turn around the same way…the only thing really on the current Van Horne is the community centre west side of brian drive/van horne, which has an ice ring which I went when I was in highschool, then a public school on the east side which I went for after school sports.
The pleasant view & van horne plazas are covered by the 24 and 224.
I always said that the Huntingwood bus should continue onto Old Sheppard past VP then into Muirhead then into Edmonton then Van Horne to Don Mills then south to the station. There are three schools that it could serve.
169A covers what 25, 10, 24 & 224 covers.
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I woujld like to see some express blue night service, especially on Yonge. Given that the subway runs express with local buses picking up the slack every 15 minutes, it is unreasonable for every blue night bus on Yonge (at least every 10min) to stop at every single local stop. I’d like to see combined services, say 30-minute local and 10-minute express, and an elimination of in-between bus stops on most of Bloor/Danforth overnight, given there is no service during the daytime, save for east of Main Street station and west of Old Mill.
Steve: Those “in between” bus stops make the night service a lot more convenient, and don’t add a huge amount to running times. Let’s get the headways down to a tolerable level on these services rather than telling folks who don’t happen to have a “local” stop nearby that they have to wait half an hour.
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Ok, I took 3 ‘improved’ bus routes this morning with mixed bag results.
Good
-All 3 buses felt less crowded. I only had to stand once. But this being a Monday that could change later this week. We’ll see.
-One of my favorite drivers on the 85 Sheppard was back. Yay.
-I had time to pick up a coffee between buses. 🙂
Neutral
-I did not notice a scheduling difference with either the 131 Nugget or the 85 Sheppard. Seemed about the same. Reliable.
Bad
-I haven’t figured out 132 Milner yet. I used to catch it at 7:01 am but today it was just turning into the end loop at that time. I opted to take the Nugget instead because I didn’t want to wait 5 minutes for the Milner to turn around.
-The Birchmount 17A is where I ran into real timing problems. Apparently that 90 sec improvement has shifted everything over. I used to be able to catch the 17A(Northbound) at 7:43am at the corner of Birchmount & Sheppard. That stop has now vanished from the schedule. My new choices are 7:32 or 7:51. And yes you guessed it, I missed the 7:32 by like 15 seconds this morning! I will try leaving earlier tomorrow, but even so, it is very difficult to catch this particular bus as a 2nd transfer point.
Final Result: 8 minutes late getting to work.
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