24 thoughts on “GO Transit Service Changes Effective September 3, 2019”

1. Steve writes:

   The 12:53 pm train westbound from Union will now run through to Kitchener arriving at 2:47 pm.
   The train which formerly started eastbound from Mount Pleasant at 3:52 pm will now originate in Kitchener at 2:57 pm.
   […]
   A new train from Kitchener at 8:57 pm will arrive at Union at 10:51 pm.

   This is very welcome news for day travellers as opposed to commuters. I will be one of the first to try those runs to Guelph and back.

   LikeLike

2. The early afternoon round trip to Kitchener looks scheduled for a 10-minute turnaround. This may be tricky to fit in with other traffic on the route.

   LikeLike

3. It feels that Metrolinx is just announcing service for the sake of announcing something. Here is an example, the last southbound train from Centennial GO is 15:41 until 21:31 . Taking the 15:41 train will get you to Union Station at 16:27 . This will allow you to take VIA 68 to Montreal. The GO train will arrive on time. After that train leaves, you are at the mercy of GO 71 bus. The traffic on the DVP is unpredictable. So if I take the 16:26 bus at Centennial GO. I am suppose to be at Union by 17:30 . If that bus is 30 minutes late, it will miss VIA 668 . Once that happens, there are no more trains to Montreal until the next day. If Metrolinx is in the business of moving people, they are doing a lousy job. RER is supposed to take GO beyond the commuter market.

   2 way service is also important to feed traffic to the UP Express at least for lines east of Union Station. Accessing YYZ from the east is difficult from the eash especially during rush hour. Aside from using the Highway 407 GO bus service, there is really no reliable way to get to YYZ. Even the GO bus 40 is chronically late as it needs to leave Highway 407 to get to YYZ. If I work around the Stouffville Line, I would definitely take the train to Union to use the UP Express. At least it is predictable and reliable.

   The issue is that the construction is so slow. They are just now laying the second track between Kennedy Rd and Kennedy GO. Without the upgraded stations, the new tracks are useless. With all this upheaval, Metrolinx should try to rough in a third track option. One of the option for VIA HFR is to access CP Havelock from the Stouffville Line. If there is 15 minutes service on the line with GO, how will be 15 trains per day per direction travel without crawling behind a GO train? I have already seen VIA trains crawl behind a GO train at Rouge Hill GO.

   Even if the federal government kicks in money in the future to expand the Stouffville Line, it will bring a lot of upheaval. Once the ridership is up, it will be hard to expand the line. One GO train can carry at least 1000 passengers. How many shuttle bus will be needed? It is better to have the conversation now, so that future generations will not have to pay for the mistake.

   Steve: Yes, this definitely had the feel of announcing as much as possible for the sake of having “good news” and spinning some of the changes as if they were far more than they really are.

   LikeLike

4. Mike Schreiner, Guelph’s Green Party MPP, had this comment on the ‘increased service’, which as I stated earlier benefits me in terms of an ‘escape’ to Guelph and back totally by train with bike (I live at Dundas West) but offers little to regular commuters:

   Guelph MPP Mike Schreiner said in a statement that the expanded service makes sense ”and this news brings us closer to the long-promised all-day, two-way service between Guelph and Toronto.

   “While these stepwise changes are helpful, the Ford government should provide a timeline of when all-day, two-way service will be in place. This would give businesses and people predictability and allow us to hold them accountable to promises,” Schreiner said.

   And before hourly GO service is a reality, there is no reason we cannot fill the gaps with express bus service between cities including Guelph, Hamilton, Cambridge and Kitchener-Waterloo.”

   From Guelph Today

   Note that last sentence, and how that ties back to the GO bus service being a case of ‘robbing Peter to pay Paul’.

   Again, from my observations of riding the rails out to that area many times in the last few months, (and extending my trips with bike on GO bus) and back in from Mount Pleasant, many if not all of the trains have been very sparsely used. This is outside of rush-hour, and thus GO making a point of using 6 car trains for many of the added day-time runs.

   The ridership policy being applied is inconsistent with that for buses. Many of these ‘added’ runs are like throwing in extra sachets of ketchup with your fast-food meal…and calling the meal “new and improved” as a result.

   Again, for me, since I’m retired, I can use the ‘extra ketchup’. Most can’t and won’t. For them it’s not ketchup at all, but added salt.

   LikeLike

5. David Youngs | August 16, 2019 at 9:27 pm

   “The early afternoon round trip to Kitchener looks scheduled for a 10-minute turnaround. This may be tricky to fit in with other traffic on the route.”

   Since Metrolinx owns the route from Silver Jct. (Georgetown) to Kitchener I’m sure they will take care of other traffic.

   LikeLike

6. According to Google Maps, West Harbour GO is a stub terminal that cannot accommodate trains from Niagara Falls unless the trains are backed into the terminal. But there appears to be space at the James Street bridge for tracks at the Niagara end of West Harbour to join the mainline. The question is: Why aren’t the tracks so joined to allow GO and VIA trains to stop at the platforms?

   Steve: GO plans to join up the tracks, but for now trains from the Falls have to back in. Compare the running times for weekend trains that don’t call at West Harbour to those for weekday trains that do. The difference is more than the time for a simple station stop.

   LikeLike

7. Benny Cheung said: They are just now laying the second track between Kennedy Rd and Kennedy GO. Without the upgraded stations, the new tracks are useless. With all this upheaval, Metrolinx should try to rough in a third track option.

   I totally agree with Benny. It means a third rail bridge across Sheppard, grade separated crossing at Danforth Road and grade separated junctions at Scarborough Junctions. Metrolinx should really get serious instead of half-hearted, and wasting money.

   LikeLike

8. Further to Benny and Bill’s point, to continue the present ’15 minute interval’ service on LSE to points east of Scarborough Station, there needs to be more track(s) west to Union along that corridor from Scarborough Jct if the Stouffvile service is to perform as presented.

   In lieu of there being no sign of that happening anytime soon, it would seem a workable option would be for the Stouffville line to terminate at Scarborough Jct, the exception being rush-hour if pathing permits with the present signalling system in place allowing for 7 min headways and a possible interruption of two-way service to do this. This would also allow the single track section between Scarborough Jct and Kennedy Station to be one of the last sections to need to be twinned. This wasn’t what was promised, but a starving person will eat what’s on the plate if it’s the only option. A single track between the last and second last station on a line is often used for economy of capital investment.

   Whether or not this would work, the challenge presents itself in many places on the Metrolinx rail network. Far too much was promised far too soon, and what’s being delivered is dribs and drabs on a political basis (promises for votes) in many places, and a completed fully working/scheduled new line in none.

   Successive regimes in QP are responsible for this. I’ve been harsh on Verster, albeit he’s inherited a piecemeal chalice. That aspect I have sympathy for, it’s a terrible way for a jurisdiction to build transit. Where I fault Verster is in his defending the absurdity of the present political straightjacket, almost diametrically opposite of what he espoused when he first arrived on the scene.

   Are there any readers who *aren’t* more cynical now than ten years ago for transit in the GTA?

   LikeLike

9. Why not bring back #20? How will students get to Oakville Burlington Hamilton to get to school now – spending all precious time on the buses.

   LikeLike

10. Stephen Saines said: there needs to be more track(s) west to Union along that corridor from Scarborough Jct if the Stouffvile service is to perform as presented…
    the present signalling system in place allowing for 7 min headways

    Let me be clear, I know nothing about how railroads work, nor the GO system.

    I was under the impression that Metrolinx is constructing a 4th track, in the Lakeshore corridor. Is this not the case? I remember the EA was submitted a couple of years ago and the debate was that two tracks should be added, but thought that would involve widening bridges.

    My second impression was that railroad signal systems use 15 minute blocks, with one train per block. The Stouffville line must permit freight train passage despite being owned by Metrolinx. What is the maximum speed a train is permitted to run at 7 minute headways? My impression was that the blocks were designed to stop trains, the most difficult task. Is the maximum speed reduced with 7 minute headways?

    I know there are experts who read this blog, who can clear up my misconceptions.
    Thanking, in advance.

    Steve: Information about the expansion program for the Lakeshore East corridor from Don to Scarborough Junction is available on the Metrolinx website Of course with the boffins behind the Ontario Line proposing to run in the GO corridor from Gerrard Station west, who knows what the configuration of the corridor will be.

    LikeLike

11. Bill: Yours is an entirely crucial question, but lest it seem I was claiming 7 minute headway/interval is presently possible (it may be, I’m led to believe it is on sections of the Georgetown UPX sections) what I stated was conditional:

    [(what) would seem a workable option would be for the Stouffville line to terminate at Scarborough Jct, the exception being rush-hour if pathing permits with the present signalling system in place allowing for 7 min headways and a possible interruption of two-way service to do this. ]

    Another option if fifteen minutes is the present min interval possible is to alternate Stouffville runs with Oshawa ones at 30 min interval each. Compared to what operators are achieving in other nations (UK Thameslink are achieving 2.5 min intervals, and Crossrail claim in theory even better) one really has to wonder if Metrolinx aren’t too focused on the number of tracks and the cost of providing them instead of state of the art signalling systems?

    What’s very clear is the Metrolinx is over a generation behind best practice elsewhere, and there’s little sign of that changing.

    I too would like to see a response from someone with an engineering know-how as to the present state of ‘what’s possible’ with the present Metrolinx situation.

    LikeLike

12. Apparently the two sets of Lakeshore East expansion projects – the western one to add a fourth track between Scarborough and Don, and the eastern one to add a third track between Guildwood and Pickering – have both been cancelled.

    Bill, your understanding of signalling is incorrect. Railroad signal systems operate in the same manner as the signals on the subway, only the control distances and the signal progressions are much greater due to the length and speed of the trains. The theoretical headway of any particular piece of track is dictated by the length of the signal blocks, the speed at which trains can clear them, and the speed of the lineside equipment protecting it.

    For instance, because of the way the signalling equipment is laid out on the Weston Sub, and how the signal progressions are laid out, in theory you could have trains operating at the line speed – 80mph – operating 3 miles apart and never seeing anything other than a green signal. That would give you a theoretical headway of about 2 and a quarter minutes.

    Steve: I am waiting for comment from Metrolinx on the status of the projects to add tracks in the Lakeshore East corridor.

    LikeLike

13. Addendum to my prior post:

    Whatever happened to this project [new signalling on GO]?

    Discussion at the time here.

    LikeLike

14. I see that once again there is no mention of the Milton line. Is this because it is still owned by CP which stands in the way of improvements.

    Steve: Yes, as with the Richmond Hill line that, in addition to flooding problems, is CN territory north of the York Subdivision.

    LikeLike

15. How are students gonna get to college from Milton Guelph area? Now all way back to Mississauga then down and back out. If colleges and universities are in Oakville to Hamilton areas.

    LikeLike

16. Here’s some info that may be of assistance to you. I’m having a heck of a time digging out much on this (Enhanced Train Control and Conventional Signaling (ETCCS) project). Metrolinx (surprise, surprise!) apparently has buried this, but Parsons, the contractor, prominently post a ‘media enquiries’ link on their page.

    Further to that, and ten years dated:

    14 trains per hour on a 2-track rail section? The Dutch prove that it IS possible!

    Since then, many European and Asian operators have achieved exactly that, Thameslink not only do it, but doing it completely ATO through the tunnelled core section in London.

    LikeLike

17. CP doesn’t now and never has stood in the way of Milton Line improvements. They’ve been clear about what’s required since the skeletal service was launched in 1981, which documents in my files demonstrate. The flimsy Metrolinx excuse is that they won’t invest in someone else’s infrastructure. If that had been a valid argument, then GO wouldn’t have even started rolling on CN infrastructure back in May 1967.

    In truth, doing anything with the Milton and Richmond Hill lines runs counter to the grand Metrolinx design … whatever that may be. In the case of the Richmond Hill Line, improving that service might undercut their argument in favour of spending about $10 billion for the realigned Yonge subway extension, which they are yanking away from York Region’s planning guidance.

    When Phil Verster, Michael Schabas and all the Brits they’ve imported go down, I want to be on-site to see the crash.

    LikeLike

18. GO runs some train intervals at 3 trains in a 15 [minute] slot on the UPX line where they run a counter peak GO train with the UPX trains so that periodically there is a set of 3 trains in a 15 minute window for a 7.5 minute headway. In the p.m. GO runs the last inbound train between two UPX trains. They also often reverse the UPX trains so they run left side of the RoW, English style. This means the inbound train does not have to cross 2 UPX tracks.

    A survey crew was out last week on the Kitchener line. I asked what they were looking for and they said that Metrolinx wanted to upgrade to category 5 track, 90 mph for passengers, and install some sections of double track on the Guelph sub, not total double track. The section from Silver Jct., Georgetown, through Limestone would be difficult to double track and apparently there is a section around Rockwood that has difficulties.

    @ Dan:

    I think that the maximum speeds on the Weston Sub are 75 mph with a lot of 70 mph or slower sections from my observations of the speed signs as I ride it. Also there are a lot of slow orders for construction. Also the station stop times are often near 2 minutes so they cannot operate 2.5 to 3 minutes apart. They are also doing some Rube Goldberg things at Bramalea to get trains into platform 4 and to use 6 cars on platform 3. The train I rode in on car 6 thinking that no one would get on at Bramalea as they were only using the cars from the accessibility car forward. They had a ground person open the crew door on car 6, the western most one, to let people on to it.

    I would bet that they do the same thing for the trains that start or end on platform 4 as they can only use cars 5, 6 and 7 and only the accessibility doors of car 5. If I have this correct, they can open the accessibility door then either all the doors in front of it or all the doors behind it or both. They cannot open a fraction of the train in front or behind. So they have a ground person open the western most door of the cars with a key and then close it with a key using the crew door control and not the train line control.

    I think Metrolinx is being pressured into running service before the infrastructure is ready for it. Thus the backing into or out of West Harbour and the ground personnel at Bramalea.

    @ Stephen Saines

    European practice is to make trains safe by keeping them from colliding. North American practice seems to make them survivable in an accident. Metrolinx was installing a signal system that would have allowed Communication Based Train Control and much closer head ways but I think it has been stalled for financial reasons. The extra service coming to Georgetown is probably to keep PC members’ seats safe. The same for the Niagara service.

    LikeLike

19. @ Greg Gormick

    I’m not sure what supposed “documents” you claim to have, but CP has long had very, very specific demands of GO Transit and later Metrolinx for any improvements to service on not just the Milton Line, but also for additional service into Hamilton TH&B. In some cases GO has met the demand – such as an additional connecting track at Desjardins, or building a new yard that doesn’t require trains to climb the Escarpment west of Milton – and in other cases has balked, such as double-tracking the Hamilton Tunnel.

    @ Robert Wightman

    My apologies, you are right – the most recent document I have shows that zone speeds on the Weston Sub are 75mph from 1.9 to 16.5, with additional PSOs and slow orders.

    But my point was to show that the theoretical headway is far lower than “15 minutes”. The equipment used can also negatively affect the headway as well – a UPX set is shorter and can accelerate faster than a GO train, and so you can run them more frequently as they would clear each block faster.

    LikeLike

20. Dan writes:

    But my point was to show that the theoretical headway is far lower than “15 minutes”. The equipment used can also negatively affect the headway as well – a UPX set is shorter and can accelerate faster than a GO train, and so you can run them more frequently as they would clear each block faster.

    This is an essential point. It might be open to argument as to the best TPH (Trains Per Hour) the Georgetown Corridor can throughput, or even more specifically, how many can/could be done on a pair of tracks alone with a modern signalling/control system, but I think we can all agree that in ML’s case, 8 TPH on one pair of tracks should be easily attainable given agreeable factors. Others are doing multiples of that, Paris RER, London Thameslink (under total ATO save for drivers closing doors at stations through the underground core of London), Berlin, etc, etc attaining and proving the ability to do 25 TPH each direction with mainline trains both in and outside of tunnel.

    Surely Metrolinx, with the “British Crowd” that Greg refers to, must be aware of this? (Btw, I’ve met these folks at the dog park, not knowing who it was exactly they’re working for, but sussed it was ML, we discussed exactly this point.)

    At some point, ML has to acquire this or even better tech. Why are they putting all their eggs into more and more track? The reason others have taken this route to provide this frequency of train service rather than more tracks? Because it’s vastly cheaper.

    Now here’s the possible rub: I Googled for some time this morning to find the latest FRA status on this (Canada seems unable to think independently, even after signing CETA which specifically covers railway equipment to be tariff free and meeting *int’l standards* (UIC), and the US has not only defunded adoption of CBTC and the mainline equiv for heavy rail, the FRA and Dep’t of Transport have deleted their websites on it, specifically the California proposal.

    As easy as it might and should be to hold QP’s fetid feet to the fire, I’d like to know where the Ottawa Feds are on this? Transport Canada, as they are ostensibly with HFR, should be pushing this.

    I live right next to the Georgetown Corridor. It never ceases to amaze me as to “what a waste of potential” it is. If this was London, or many other cities, that corridor would be packed with passengers. And on two tracks, let alone 3 becoming 4.

    LikeLike

21. Clarification:

    In haste, I wrote

    “the US has not only defunded adoption of CBTC and the mainline equiv for heavy rail, the FRA and Dep’t of Transport have deleted their websites on it, specifically the California proposal.”

    This is a result of funding decisions by the present Trump Administration. The US Federal Transit Agency still posts analyses and documentation of CBTC on transit rail, and an excellent 195 page example here:

    An Assessment of the Business Case for Communications-Based Train Control

    ABSTRACT

    This study examines the retrofit of CBTC technology on two North American transit properties, namely New York City Transit (NYCT) and the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (SEPTA), with the objective of assessing
    the benefits realized and implementation challenges experienced. The study validates broader industry experience that CBTC offers benefits that cannot be achieved with prior generations of signaling technology. […]

    Again: Where is the Metrolinx dialog on this?

    Steve: Please see my recent post about the shift of responsibility for system upgrades to whatever 3P wins the GO Expansion procurement now in progress.

    LikeLike

22. Supposed documents, Dan? Who the hell do you think you are? The documents are real and they came from my various lengthy assignments at CP over a period of 21 years.

    CP wants capacity protection and they’ve always been clear on that. You expect them to just add intensive GO service and screw themselves on their freight handling?

    Honest to God, the more I see and hear of rail and transit foamers, the more I understand why you never want to have that label slapped on you when you work in these industries professionally.

    LikeLiked by 1 person

23. Wish they would restore Milton to Oakville.

    LikeLike

24. @ Greg Gormick

    Then I guess the thing to ask is – can we see the documents? Their existence would negate and render useless over 40 years of consulting reports, and call into question the experience and knowledge of countless consultants and supposed experts over that time.

    LikeLike

Comments are closed.