67 thoughts on “Queens Quay Reconstruction 2014 (Updated August 21, 2014)”

1. Has any work progressed on the specialwork on King at Sumach? I recall in a previous posting of yours that work in that area was supposed to start on March 30th, but haven’t seen any construction notices.

   Steve: I visited the intersection yesterday. Work now in progress involves utility construction, and the track work will follow later. The most recent construction notice (which is well-hidden on the Waterfront Toronto site, not the City’s site for such things) contains the details.

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2. Steve, from your visit did you get a clear impression about when the changes to Queen’s Quay will start to take on their “final” appearance (before the project is actually finished)?

   If I go there in May or June will there be a strong impression of what the area will look like or do I need to wait until the (hoped for) return of streetcars on August 31st?

   Cheers, Moaz

   Steve: You will need to wait a while. The current plan goes roughly like this:

   By the end of May, all of the “deep services” (utilities, etc.) will be finished and work can concentrate on the surface. This has already started wherever possible as one can see from patches of completed granite paver sidewalks and, now, the TTC corridor west from Simcoe. Until the deep service work is completed in any block, at least a third of the road, sometimes over half, has been occupied for construction. This is ending at different times in different locations, and whatever can be done, is. The problem is that people still see the narrow roadway meandering through the site and lots of construction gear, and so it’s hard to recognize how much has actually been completed unless one has been watching week-by-week.

   Gradually the temporary roadway will shift to the south side of Queens Quay as the utility work is completed. This frees up the centre of the street for the new TTC lanes and the north side (later in the summer) for construction of the new permanent roadway.

   The last thing to happen will be the creation of the new bike and pedestrian lanes on the south side (impossible until traffic shifts to the north side) late in 2014. Plantings will not happen until Spring 2015, but all will be ready for the summer season and the Pan Am Games.

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3. Steve, thanks for the update and the photos of the work. The pictures give a great impression of how much work is actually being done.

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4. Steve –

   Has there been any timetable for the building the missing link, from the Dufferin Loop, southbound and eastbound, to connect with the 509 and 511 services? How soon could an express line, between Long Branch Loop and Union Station start?

   Steve: There is no timeline for this or any other variation on the Waterfront West LRT line. It is at the bottom of any priority lists I have seen, assuming it is on the list at all.

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5. Thank you for the update Steve though it looks as if the tracks are in the centre of the road in front of Queens Quay Terminal? I thought they were going to one side.

   Steve: They have never been going to one side. This is a common misunderstanding. The sidewalk on the south side gets wider, and then there will be the Martin Goodman Trail both occupying the space formerly used for eastbound auto lanes. Then come the streetcar lanes more or less where they were before, and finally a new bidirectional local road on the north side. All of the drawings have shown this layout for years.

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6. Steve:

   They have never been going to one side. This is a common misunderstanding. The sidewalk on the south side gets wider, and then there will be the Martin Goodman Trail both occupying the space formerly used for eastbound auto lanes. Then come the streetcar lanes more or less where they were before, and finally a new bidirectional local road on the north side. All of the drawings have shown this layout for years.

   Granted, but the plans/renderings show 3 traffic lanes on the north, plus the width of a streetcar island; by my estimation that should require moving the tracks south by about the width of a traffic lane. As best I can judge from a ride through, plus the aerial view from the construction cameras, that’s not happening. I don’t know how they’re expecting to squeeze 3 traffic lanes in the road allowance on the north side. (Unless they’re going to shrink the sidewalk on the north side: reference image.)

   Steve: Please refer to the plans for the entire street. In many places, notably where there is a streetcar island, there is only one road lane each way with no parking or turn lane.

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7. This construction has been going on for years. Any chances of it completing soon? There is streetcar construction again on Queen St. The multibillion dollar new streetcars have been many years in planning and we have yet to see one in service and in contrast the articulated buses only recently announced are already serving several routes.

   The arguments for streetcars are high capacity and electric but articulated buses and double decker buses and double decker articulated buses nullify the capacity argument for streetcars and as for the electric argument, the repeated construction and digging for months to years on end causes more air and land pollution than the air pollution caused by modern diesel buses.

   I love riding streetcars but I think the capacity, environmentally friendliness, speed, convenience, and safety arguments are all in favour of buses in this day and age. I say safety because every single day cars go speeding past the open streetcar doors and that is not a concern with buses. Sooner or later, someone will get killed because of this and while it is not the streetcar’s fault, this can be eliminated with buses. Plus the electric argument for streetcars is also nullified given that the electricity it uses also has to be produced in a polluting fashion and I assure you that it is not running on solar or wind based electricity.

   So, I hope that the new provincial government will take a second look at the streetcar system and make a decision about its future. I think we need an independent third party study comparing buses vs streetcars. Plus, we can also have a city wide referendum at almost no cost if held with the municipal elections. The question can be simple: “Do you wish to keep the streetcar system?” As a democratic society, I think that we should all have our say. I already know where Steve stands on this issue and will be interested in seeing what your other readers have to say about the issue.

   Steve: How many times do I have to say this? The TTC has been rebuilding the streetcar system for the past two decades and has actually reached the point where almost all of the “tangent” (straight) rail is built to new, robust standards. They started on intersections later, and will take longer to catch up. Queen at Victoria & Broadview are overdue for replacement, and Queen at Leslie is a new intersection for carhouse access.

   As I have already mentioned here, double-decker buses will not fit under many bridges on our streetcar lines.

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8. Why can’t every bus route be a BRT?

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9. Bob Patrick says:
   May 8, 2014 at 1:43 am

   “Why can’t every bus route be a BRT?”

   Because you could never justify taking over the entire road on a 2 lane street for a bus that runs every 10 to 20 minutes. Even on 4 lane roads it is difficult to reserve 2 lanes for buses, especially on headways greater than 4 minutes. Even trying to do BRT light by having queue jumping lanes would be impossible on many routes in the older parts because there is no room for the lanes.

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10. Streetcars vs Buses said:

    “The arguments for streetcars are high capacity and electric but articulated buses and double decker buses and double decker articulated buses nullify the capacity argument for streetcars and as for the electric argument, the repeated construction and digging for months to years on end causes more air and land pollution than the air pollution caused by modern diesel buses.”

    I think there are environment I see 2 operating issues here, 1 – even generated using natural gas, or for that matter coal, I believe that electric is still cleaner, total cycle, due to the ability to run a power plant closer to steady state, not irregular full load. 2-location of pollution does matter, at least in terms of impact on people.

    While there has been considerable work done on the streetcar tracks etc, they are being built so that they will not require work for some considerable time. Streets especially those that have heavier vehicles like buses especially when they are double deckers need to either have improved base construction like streetcar, or will require extensive rebuild eventually.

    I am not convinced that there is a notable difference between the safety of Streetcars and buses, because although people need to step off, there is also the factor for buses of pulling back into traffic, especially from narrow areas between parked cars.

    I do not see any buses filling the capacity of a Streetcar, especially now that the TTC is moving to 30 metre vehicles. Also those tracks you are complaining about maintaining, because they are being built to such a high level, mean that businesses and potential residents know that they are looking at a long term service going past their door, and will locate and invest in their location accordingly. Better to extend streetcars further out beyond the old city, than have buses go the other way.

    Scarborough should be fighting for a Streetcar barn, not a bus shed. Take the busiest bus routes and make them Streetcar. Streetcars to Warden, Kennedy and the STC. We should not rush to convert routes, but gradually extending the streetcar done right (exclusive lane where possible) would hugely improve transit.

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11. Buses obviously have less maintenance than subways. So why can’t all buses have 10 minute off peak frequencies?

    Steve: The TTC was looking at a 10-minute network as part of the Transit City Bus Plan, although many of the routes in that net already operated (on paper at least) at under 10 minutes most of the time.

    The real challenge for a 10-minute network is that if you draw the line all the way from, say, Neville to Long Branch, you had better provide at least a 10 minute headway over the entire route. I don’t think this nuance has quite penetrated the minds of some folks at the TTC yet. A spiffy sign at a stop advertising that it is part of a “10 minute network” is cold comfort when half of the service never gets that far.

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12. Bob Patrick says:
    May 9, 2014 at 2:40 pm

    “Buses obviously have less maintenance than subways. So why can’t all buses have 10 minute off peak frequencies?”

    Probably because they have the lowest ratio for passengers to crew. Running a 10 minute headway on all buses will get very expensive in labour costs. There is not an infinite amount of money to run services that are not warranted by demand. Time to get realistic.

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13. Bob Patrick said:

    “Buses obviously have less maintenance than subways. So why can’t all buses have 10 minute off peak frequencies?”

    On a per passenger carried, and factoring required road maintenance and replacement cycle, do they actually have that much less maintenance? They would when we do goofy things like build long stretches of subway to a low demand, but would that be true on Yonge south of Sheppard, Bloor east of Keele, or Danforth west of Victoria Park?

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14. Re: comments by Streetcars vs Buses:

    In my opinion, the principal advantage to passengers of streetcars instead of buses, is streetcars’ greatly superior smoothness of ride: a distinct benefit to standees, especially the elderly and disabled, whether the persons are still or moving in negotiation of the vehicles’ interior spaces while they’re in motion. Streetcar travel is virtually complete in its absence of harsh jolts and powerful lateral forces. Occasionally, a streetcar driver will enter a curve too fast, resulting in a sideways jolt, but those occasions are rare. The most disturbing irregularity of motion within my recollection with respect to streetcar travel … especially if one suffered from motion sickness, I would suppose … was the side-to-side rocking motion exhibited by P.C.C. cars when stopped on the Prince Edward Viaduct; however, on the whole, that was gentle compared to the disturbances which bus passengers must frequently endure.

    Steve: Looking out of my window at the Prince Edward Viaduct I can confirm that PCCs have not stopped there, at least while I was looking, for a very long time 😉 . Therefore, this source of annoyance is moot, at least until someone builds a Skytrain line somewhere that is in a wind tunnel.

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15. Why don’t we just use skytrain technology for the relief line?

    Steve: There was a proposal to do this decades ago including an elevated structure on Front Street in front of Union Station. A big advantage of staying with subway technology for this route is that it avoids the need for a separate maintenance yard. The Skytrain (ICTS) proposal for the DRL ran south to Eastern Avenue rather than diagonally into the core specifically to access property for a yard and shops.

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16. Here’s to hoping the street will somewhat return to normal soon without the majority of it being under construction.

    Steve: Although the project appears interminable, it has reached the point where one can actually say “the end is nigh” in many locations. Utility work continues on parts of the route (notably from Bay to York, and from Robertson Crescent East to the Peter Slip Bridge), but most will be completed by the end of May (except for the section west of Spadina which is on hold while the intersection is being assembled). Wherever possible, the new granite pavers have been installed on the north and south sidewalks, and the majority of this will be completed before July 1. Construction of parts of the new north roadway will also be underway soon. Please refer to the community presentation given earlier this week.

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17. Steve just an update, they are pouring concrete from York Street to Simcoe in and around the tracks this morning. Also, pavers are now installed from about Rees to Maple Leaf Quay in front of the parking lot on the north side. Track installation is also taking place with the track laying in place in spots ready to be bolted in.

    As you said Steve, the end is nigh! THE END IS NIGH!!

    Steve: Yes, I visited QQ this morning. Also there is some track in place east of York in between two excavation areas.

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18. 3 more months until this long dreadful project to be finally completed. With all the delays, different parties working on the construction (Waterfront Toronto, TTC, Toronto Hydro, City Council) I wouldn’t want to be the Project Manager for this project!

    It is a shame they couldn’t get this project completed by June, the summer is the best time of the year to enjoy the waterfront and would really be nice to get people going back to that area.

    Steve: The original plan was for a June completion, but that presumed a benign winter like the ones we have had in recent years. Once the ultra cold weather hit, a lot of work had to stop. I suspect that the line will actually be physically completed before the end of August, but the TTC had to pick a reasonable date for service resumption that would not slip. Also, when the Queens Quay work was delayed, the pressure to restore access to the streetcar loop at Union fell off and this will now happen when the new south platform opens in July or August.

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19. The ongoing TTC track work on Queens Quay West is getting closer to completion, which will be some time later this year; it includes installation of new poles and overhead electrical wires, supplying the energy source for streetcars when they eventually return. During recent trips to Harbourfront Centre, I’ve noticed progress in the construction of new streetcar tracks – even seeing the young men working on the tracks, operating machinery and pouring concrete between the new rails. They’ve been working weekends, in a rush to get the job done. The past winter, the coldest in 20 years (1993-94), has made construction work a challenge at the best of times.

    The TTC currently and will continue to run shuttle buses on its “509 Harbourfront” route (as it’s been doing since 29 July 2012) until the track and other work is completed. I’m looking forward to the return of streetcars, when they’re expected to hit Queens Quay West in late summer, and they include the new LFLRVs (low-floor light-rail vehicles). When this work is completed, the new tracks will be used by the “510 Spadina” and “509 Harbourfront” streetcars.

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20. Steve — it’s been so long that I’ve forgotten, and I don’t know if the TTC will be making changes after all this time: do you know what the plan for the 510 will be with respect to percentages short turned at king vs running all the way to Queens Quay when it reopens that far in June? Similarly, what will the percentages become for King/Queens Quay/Union when it completely reopens? And do you know how the LFLRV will affect it given the smaller number they’ll be running?

    Steve: No to all of the above. When the June 22 schedule change memo was issued, it presumed that the 510 would continue running to King, and I must assume that there was a late-breaking change about which I must enquire. As for September with service to Union, again no. However, I suspect that the initial schedule will not see a decrease in scheduled cars because there won’t be enough LFLRVs to convert the entire route. A full cutover would come later as enough are available.

    Then, of course, there is the challenge of actually getting the TTC to ensure that these cars actually operate and are not replaced ad hoc by smaller CLRVs trying to carry a longer headway, very much the way Queen operates today.

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21. While we are on the subject of service restoration do you have any idea when Union loop will reopen? Looks sooner rather than later. They seem to be making amazing process there.

    Surprised you are not documenting the construction.

    Steve: The plan is for the loop to reopen at the end of August. As for documenting construction, it’s not the easiest place to get at unlike works at street level.

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22. Steve said:

    Special Update: Subject to completion of work around Spadina and Queens Quay, the TTC plans to resume streetcar service on 510 Spadina to Queens Quay Loop on Sunday, June 22. This will reduce the traffic congestion caused by a high frequency streetcar service using the loop at Adelaide/Charlotte/King.

    As they have plans to replace the Spadina/Dundas intersection from July 14-August 30 this presumably means no Spadina service (with streetcars anyway) either so the streetcar use of the QQ Loop won’t last long.

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23. So Steve.. because of the Spadina and Dundas work are they even going to bother replacing Spadina with Streetarcs from King to Queens Quay or are they going to do something interesting like Spadina Stn to Queens Quay via College, Bathurst and Queen to route?

    Thoughts?

    Steve: Spadina Station will be under construction concurrently for changes to the platform to handle two LFLRVs at once. Therefore, no streetcars on the entire line.

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24. Slightly related … LFLRV4403 (the first production vehicle) has left Thunder Bay and is on its way to Toronto. Actually it should be here by now … but it raises a few questions:

    Steve: @StreetcarTO has tweeted a photo of 4403 earlier this evening.

    1. How many LFLRV will be needed to operate on Spadina (assuming that the plan is to go with a full conversion of the route)?

    Steve: The original plan for this route required 12 cars plus spares. Until we see the service memo for September, we won’t know for sure exactly what they plan to do for the initial rollout.

    2. Will LFLRVs 4400-2 be kept around while the fleet is built up or be returned immediately for upgrades (assuming Bombardier cannot do the upgrades in Toronto?

    3. Does anyone know of what changes the TTC has requested for the production vehicle?

    Steve: I plan to delve into these two questions on the planned ride on June 11.

    Cheers, Moaz

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25. You will be attending the ride on the 11th Steve? See you there?

    Steve: Yes.

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26. The new streetcars will initially replace the CLRV on Spadina in a 1:1 ratio, until there will be enough cars to fully convert the route (which I believe will require 12 cars for AM and 13 for PM. Depending on the available service budget for Oct – Nov, this can change). As a preliminary arrangement, there should be a maximum of six new cars in service on the 510 starting in September, the rest will continue to be CLRV’s. The 510 will be operated out of Roncesvalles, mainly because Russell is already space-constrained, and the ladder track at the back of the yard is in very bad shape. That track replacement project is now postponed probably until next year, but I am not holding my breath. Until Leslie opens, most of the ‘heavy’ running maintenance (wheel truing etc.) will be done at Hillcrest.

    The good news is that once the CLRV’s are fully replaced, every other car would be going to Union, so there will be fewer short turns at King & Spadina; hopefully, this will help the reliability of the 504.

    On the production vehicles, the main change is a new design of the accesibility ramp of module #2. As things stand now, only the second modules of 4401 and 4402 will be shipped back to Thunder Bay, not the entire streetcar, but it is not known when this will take place, because the cars are still needed for training. Some other modifications, mainly on the software control system, will be made here in Toronto.

    Steve: Thanks for the update. I plan to ask the TTC formally for more info on their rollout plans for the new cars as the previously announced plan was (a) badly flawed and (b) no longer makes sense given actual delivery rates. I heard about the new ramp from Stephan Lam at the Doors Open event at Russell and look forward to seeing this for myself on June 11 at which point I will be able to publish photos and an explanation of what has been done.

    It’s sad to see the Russell Yard track postponed yet again. Too much special work is being pushed beyond reasonable limits, and slow orders have become standard even where they are not required. An entire generation of operators has never seen streetcars run through intersections at a reasonable speed.

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27. Only a maximum of 6 new cars by September means 2 in June, 2 in July, and 2 in August. That’s a big cut in the previously announced delivery rate of 3 per month.

    I can’t be the only one who isn’t happy with this drawn out leisurely rollout. It’s already way behind schedule!

    Steve: I am not happy either, but if the delay has been mainly to get the accessibility ramp “right”, then that’s all for the good. The last thing we need is a brand new fleet of streetcars that alienates the wheelchair community. But, yes, that delivery rate has got to get back up to the advertised three/month soon.

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28. Just a quick clarification to my previous comment: I said a maximum of six cars in service at a given time, not just six cars delivered. 4403 arrived Saturday, the next delivery should happen by June 15. If everything goes well, we are counting on having nine production cars in time for the September board (i.e. not including the prototypes, which will continue to be used for training only, until upgrades to the ramp and the software systems are completed).

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29. I’m not sure how likely the June 22nd date is – the exit from the loop won’t be completed (at the current rate) until the end of the week, which leaves only 2 weeks for the concrete to cure and the overhead to be replaced. As of this morning they had not yet mobilized to install the overhead for the Spadina/QQ intersection yet, a full week after they poured the last layer of concrete. If they wait a week after pouring the exit, there will only be 1 week to install the overhead and _test everything_.

    On the other hand, I’m fairly optimistic about the August date for overall return to service. (Except maybe the piece just west of Spadina and Queens Quay, where Eastern is still digging holes.) The corridor has been coming together very quickly, and I can easily see all the track being done in the next 2 (or 3) weeks. Which would allow 2 months for the overhead to be completed. (Of course we have no visibility as to how things are progressing from the portal all the way to the Union Station loop.)

    Steve: Queen & Victoria opened to service about a week after the concrete was poured for the east-west direction. Given the state of the loop entrance when I visited June 1, concrete will probably go in by midweek. It does not take two weeks to string overhead, especially if as an interim measure only the lines actually needed, not the intersections, are installed.

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30. Many subway stations alienate the wheelchair community.

    Steve: Yes they do, and not just those in wheelchairs. People who have problems climbing stairs don’t appreciate non-working (or non existent) escalators and elevators. Too often “accessibility” is thought of only in terms of the very least mobile when it actually affects a much broader proportion of the transit population.

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31. I can see significant protests from those needing low-floor streetcars when the 510 is only partially converted … and it’s not just the wheelchair users but also those with strollers and walkers and those unable to climb stairs easily.

    Will TTC try to alternate CLRVs and LFLRVs so people don’t have to wait as long, or will there be 2 CLRVs then a large gap, then an LFLRV, then a gap, etc?

    Cheers, Moaz

    Steve: You know perfectly well that keeping a regular, alternating spacing of car types will not work on a line with, by then, three possible destinations at the south end. Yes the new cars are long overdue, but if someone wants to protest because the line is not completely converted as a “big bang”, well maybe they would prefer we wait until next year when the new fleet is large enough. I think you are raising a non-issue. The real criticism will come if the roll out slows to a trickle from even more manufacturing or design problems.

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32. Steve: I think you are raising a non-issue.

    Moaz: We’ll see what happens in August but I know large numbers of people who will complain. Whether or not it becomes an issue big enough to get public attention depends largely on their efforts and the interest of the media.

    Steve: The real criticism will come if the roll out slows to a trickle from even more manufacturing or design problems.

    All very true. By the way (and I apologize for once again digressing from the original purpose of this post), has anyone seen one of these new Ticket Validation Machines that will be used on the new LFLRVs? Is there a render or mock-up being tested?

    Cheers, Moaz

    Steve: At last report, some of the “legacy” fare infrastructure is not going to show up until late 2014, November or so. I believe that there has been some work with the accessibility advisory committee on mockups/prototypes, but I have not seen anything.

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33. Just a quick clarification to my previous comment: I said a maximum of six cars in service at a given time, not just six cars delivered. 4403 arrived Saturday, the next delivery should happen by June 15. If everything goes well, we are counting on having nine production cars in time for the September board

    Thanks for the clarification.

    I hope the 33% spare ratio and bi-weekly deliveries are only temporary.

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34. Basically the 5 year corporate plan is hogwash. Only by 2025 will all subway stations have elevators. 5 year corporate plan isn’t exactly 100% friendly towards people with physical disabilities/limitations.

    Steve: There was never any intent to have elevators in all stations before 2025, and even this is threatened by funding limitations.

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35. Steve:

    At last report, some of the “legacy” fare infrastructure is not going to show up until late 2014, November or so. I believe that there has been some work with the accessibility advisory committee on mockups/prototypes, but I have not seen anything.

    Moaz: does this mean the LFLRVs will be carrying ticket checker+customer service agents for the first few months? It would make sense actually … at least for as long as the TTC is adding the LFLRVs to new routes and testing the Presto Card readers, Ticket Validation Machines and expanded POP service.

    But if that was the plan we would have heard of it by now with less than 3 months to go.

    Cheers, Moaz

    Steve: Actually it has been mentioned in TTC reports about the new car rollout and Presto months ago, but they have not launched a campaign to advise riders because the change is still too far in the future.

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36. There continues to be progress on the TTC streetcar tracks on Queens Quay West, and construction crews are working seven days a week, in a rush to get the job done in time for the return of streetcars, including the new LFLRVs. In the mean time, visitors to Harbourfront Cantre and/or the Island Ferry Docks continue to utilize the shuttle buses on the “509 Harbourfront” route which serves the central waterfront between the foot of Bay Street and the Exhibition grounds.

    The new posts which supply the electricity for the streetcars would be the same as or similar to those on Fleet Street when that street was getting new tracks (in 2007-08); T-shaped bows between the tracks.

    Steve: Actually the overhead will be suspended from poles at the side of the road, not by a row of poles between the rails as on Fleet Street.

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37. What will happen to the existing streetcar fleet once all of the new streetcars are in service? Will they go to the landfill, scrap yard for recycling, sold to a third world country, or be put in a museum? Will not most of these still be functional and so how about creating more streetcar lines through communities where there is support for streetcars? Ossington and Dufferin might be good new streetcar routes. People from outside of the proposed communities should not have any say on this matter.

    Steve: There are several problems with the existing fleet not least of which is that the control technology is over 30 years old and is very difficult to maintain, let alone the state it will be in 5 years from now when the last of the new cars enters service. These cars are also not accessible, and there is no way the TTC could propose a new line using such vehicles (complete accessibility is mandated for 2025 by Provincial law). As museum pieces, they will be a challenge because maintaining old solid state equipment is rather delicate and requires both special equipment and the availability of parts. Have you tried to repair your Commodore 64 lately? The CLRV predates that technology.

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38. What will happen to the CLRVs and ALRVs when they’re replaced with the new streetcars? Will they be sent to Egypt and running on the streets in Alexandria (Col. Gamal Nasser’s birthplace), just like many of the old PCCs sent there years ago?

    Steve: I doubt it. The biggest problem is that updating the control package to modern hardware is very expensive.

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39. RE: scrapped CLRVs/ALRVs

    Perhaps we’ll see a slight increase in the number of diners-in streetcars like the Super Burger at Highway 10 and 89 just east of Shelburne. Maybe their big competitor (Champ Burger) on the east side of Hwy 10 will get a CLRV?

    Cheers, Moaz

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40. A question, Steve, if I may. Do you know details of how the overhead on Queens Quay is to be constructed? My impression from some of the planning materials (e.g. the design plan) was that the overhead would be supported from a single row of poles on the south side of the streetcar ROW. As the poles started to go up, they matched my expectations – they are thicker, taller and more heavily/sturdily mounted than most of the usual poles that hold up spanning wires on downtown streets.

    But in the last week several poles have gone up on the north side of the ROW as well – is there going to be a double row of those very large poles all the way down Queens Quay? If so, that would explain why the TTC is saying it won’t be ready for an August opening; if they’re only putting up a single row of poles they’re about half done, but if a double row of poles is going up they won’t be nearly completed in time.

    Steve: Installation of the poles is dependent on the state of other work nearby, but given the speed with which poles have appeared just in the past week, I have a hard time believing that this would be the controlling factor. Certainly at Spadina Loop, where the TTC was claiming it would be a tight squeeze just to do this portion for the end of August, the work is now underway and I don’t think any more poles remain to be installed.

    As a design issue, I was surprised that the TTC is using its own separate poles on the right of way rather than stringing overhead from the lighting poles as this just adds to visual clutter. However, we’ve been down that path before on St. Clair, and at least on Queens Quay, we don’t have centre poles.

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