The TTC “Crime Wave”

Recently, the local media have run low on things to sensationalize.  No governments are falling, the budget debate at City Hall is boring everyone to tears and we’re all in “wait and see” mode until Queen’s Park tells us just how broke they are at the end of March.

Into these doldrums fell a few stories that have been blown out of proportion:

  • January 22:  A shooting at Osgoode Station brought chaos to the afternoon rush hour and the first round of “is the TTC safe to ride” publicity.  In time, we learned that the shooter and victim knew each other, and the wanted suspect has turned himself in to police.
  • February 12:  A man was stabbed at Wilson Station.  No further details are available.
  • February 13:  At Dufferin Station, three teenagers were pushed from the platform in front of an incoming train.  One managed not to fall, the others dropped to track level and, through quick thinking, wound up under the platform overhang.  One of them sustained foot injuries from the train.  The assailant was pursued and captured by various passengers and TTC staff, and is now known to have mental problems that could be the root of his actions.
  • February 23:  A youth boarded the Ossington bus and was recognized by two passengers.  The youth was shot, non-fatally, and the incident continued outside on the street.  A weapon has been recovered, and it is clear that the parties involved know each other. 

These are all serious incidents, but they must be seen in the larger context of the city as a whole.  Violent crime happens in many places — shopping malls, car parks, dance clubs both downtown and suburban, even in the 905, although the Toronto media tend not to report such things unless the story is just too juicy to leave alone.

In two of the cases above, the parties were known to each other, in one case we have no information, and one case is clearly a disturbed person.  These events could have just as easily happened on the street such as the Dundas Square Boxing Day shooting in 2005.

Somehow, this has become a TTC Crime Wave.  One reporter (from CBC Radio) actually dredged up an incident where a girl riding on a bus had been hit by a stray bullet from an incident on the street nearby.  That’s not TTC crime, that’s street crime, and it shows how desperate some in the media are to manufacture a story.

At Queen’s Park, MPP Mike Colle, formerly Chair of the TTC, has introduced a Private Member’s Bill to make crimes on transit property subject to special penalties.  Already, several legal beagles have pointed out that this would be ultra vires (beyond provincial jurisdiction) because such crimes are federal matters under the Criminal Code.  However, it got Colle a “sparsely attended press conference” according to the Globe, and one short news cycle.

Violent crime in Toronto should not be ignored, but we risk wasting a lot of time demonizing the TTC as if it were inherently unsafe.  The TTC is a place where lots of people travel, and by extension events of all kinds will happen there.  Some types of activity may be deterred by cameras, at least for those criminals who understand or care that their actions are recorded for posterity.

This may contribute to TTC safety by pushing the violent crime elsewhere.  The larger benefit of monitoring applies to typical onboard crimes such as pickpocketing and “stealth” sexual assaults that exploit the crowded conditions on vehicles.

Finally, I am appalled by the complete lack of attention to the issue of mental health and whether the Dufferin Station incident may have been preventable not by platform doors, but by treatment of an existing condition.

Platform doors, bluntly, are a make-work project for the TTC.  The politicians can’t very well say that they are against them as it’s a motherhood issue.  However, we’ve now seen a back-back-burner project leap to the forefront, partly as a reinforcement for “we need automatic train control now”.  The TTC needs to be more responsible in its capital planning than hoping for an increase in “crime on the subway” to generate funding for its projects.

To the TTC’s credit, various spokepeople, notably Chief General Manager Gary Webster, have been quite measured in their response.  The rest of the TTC and Toronto’s media need a similar, responsible approach.

Jeff Gray in the Globe has an article with an overview of recent events.

43 thoughts on “The TTC “Crime Wave”

  1. Within the last year, I have heard about shootings on the 401. There were also drive-by shooting. However, nowhere have I heard about we needing more protection for automobiles.

    I haven’t heard that we should all have bulletproof cars, like the ones that President Obama used while in Ottawa.

    Steve: Actually if we wanted to be completely paranoid, we would need two bulletproof cars.


  2. Steve,

    the whole “let’s blame the ttc” game is the same thing as the “let’s blame Scarborough” game.

    It is funny how the media makes the crimes on the ttc to be a bigger deal than the same types of crimes that occur else where.

    Like if someone gets shot on King Street and Strachan Avenue vs. Finch Avenue and Midland Avenue. Second one will be mentioned as Scarborough (we all know how Scarborough is the centre of the criminal universe, and every criminal organization in the universe has their HQ in Scarborough).

    I am all for MPP Colle’s bill. You do the crime then do the time, ZERO change of parole.

    I was on a bus a few weeks ago. Driver got assaulted. the bus was full and not one single person tried to do something, they all started moving towards the back of the bus. I called 911.

    I am all against the whole automatic train control. wasn’t the last time the ttc tried to do something automatic (the SRT) start issues with the unions hence why there is a driver on each SRT train and not fully automatic?

    I am sure the driver of the subway trains can observe/open their eyes when they are going into a station and align the trains. I noticed under that under the overhang of the stations there is a yellow metalic square with a number (it could be plastic), is that some kind of marker for the train operators? If they miss, couldn’t they just back up slowly until alignment?

    Just out of curiosity: Let’s say the driver of the train overshoots the platform, can he/she just go back to the proper “alignment/position” or would he/she would have to turn off the cab in the front, go all the way to the back, turn that cab on, go back into “alignment/position” then go back to the original cab?

    Steve: The problem is that all that farting around to ensure door alignment would take time and seriously interfere with close headways.

    Then, of course, there’s the inevitable situation of doors that don’t work. Imagine you are on a train and come to a station where a door is out of order with a nice sign saying it will be fixed next Friday, no the Friday after that, no next month, well maybe come back in the summer.

    The TTC’s inability to keep simple technology that has a high duty cycle like this working is quite troubling.


  3. If there is another, say 3-4 shootings or stabbings on or near TTC property this year, the media would go nuts for Toronto Election 2010


  4. There is nothing we can do Steve. We just have to plug our ears and sing a tune when the media sensationalize stories.


  5. The media sensationalizes stories based on race (more specifically, stories that involve young Black males who dress like thugs) and celebrity status!


  6. Hong Kong’s MTR has ATC and they still have “drivers” on each train. More like “watchers” as they mostly observe the security monitors on the train and at the stations.

    Nothing wrong with ATC. It just simply means that maybe there could be one less operator per train as it is on the RT. But I do wonder what the ATU113 thinks of the whole idea?


  7. I think you’re missing an important point. Because public transit is used by the lower-middle class, and because the lower-middle class includes the “low life” element that you frequently see on the TTC — hoods with concealed guns, drunks, wackos, etc., others in higher socio-economic groups who might be inclined to use public transit by choice won’t because they don’t want to sit next to a hood who might pull a gun, or a drunk who might puke, or a wingnut talking to himself or yelling at passengers — not to mention the countless fights I’ve witnessed on the TTC. Would you if you had a choice?

    Another point … just because those parties knew each other doesn’t mean an innocent bystander couldn’t have been hit by a stray bullet. It doesn’t make it “less bad”.

    Steve: I am not saying that these incidents are “less bad”, and the problem of innocent bystanders is an obvious one. However, the media have chosen to play this for all it’s worth, including the hidden racist angle, even though in the case of Dufferin Station, the assailant was, I believe, white.


  8. I hate CityNews. Why can’t CTV (or even Global) have a 24 hour local news channel too?

    Steve: The biggest problem is that it’s easier to lead with the attention grabbing headline, a bit of street footage but no actual insight into the larger issues. This is a generic problem of most local news coverage, not just City, and it’s a result of funding cutbacks and a concentration on national and provincial feeds that don’t need any local production crews.


  9. Without casting judgment on the benefits of screens, they do not necessarily require automatic control: for example, Line 5 of the Beijing subway has both screen doors and drivers. The screen doors are wider than the subway doors to account for overshoots.


  10. Many many years ago, in the 70’s to be more exact, a young woman was murdered, during the daytime, at, I believe St. Patrick Stn. She was, I also believe, the daughter of the TTC Chairman at the time, an unfortunate coincidence. It was because of this murder that parts of St. Patrick and Queen’s Park Stn platform cross-overs were closed off, as well as the installation of the Museum Stn. cage. Though the incident was covered in the media, the coverage was nevertheless not nearly as hysterical as the coverage of the gun/knife incidents of recent years. Here is where the tenor of the media coverage is exposed: in the 70’s, it was an unfortunate and terrible incident, whereas now it’s the metropolis apocalypse.

    Steve: I don’t remember there being any relationship of the victim to any of the Commissioners. If such a relationship had existed, I am sure that I would have, along with many others, have offered my personal condolences as I was attending Commission meetings from late 1972 onward. I have no recollection of this. This sounds like an urban legend.

    Also, I believe that the murder was at St. Andrew’s, not at St. Pat’s. Many blind spots were walled up (phone booths, etc) in various stations. The Museum cage is a vent shaft and could not be closed. It will eventually become a second exit from the station.


  11. A friend of mine was stopped on the street by a roving CP24 crew that was curious to know her thoughts on this very topic. The reporter asked very leading questions in an attempt to elicit a newsworthy response. She was asked if she felt less secure riding the TTC given the recent events and replied that she did not. She went on to say that she didn’t feel the TTC should be responsible for the costs of fixing what amounts to a social issue, and if we want to limit violent crimes then perhaps the multiple levels of government should examine their strategies for crime reduction and poverty eradication. Needless to say, her interview wasn’t aired.


  12. Of course you’ve heard all the calls for bans on hand guns as if that would solve all of society’s problems. the plain honest truth is that all this violence, be it gun violence or any other type of violence, isn’t a disease but a symptom. When I read a recent Toronto Star article about the decline of the middle class in Toronto and the rise of the division between the rich and the poor the first thought that popped up in my mind was “no wonder.” In order to get any kind of handle at all on public violence, we as a society have got to dig damn deep into the problems that help fan these ignorant acts. The news media may not be exactly a big help in the way it covers things but you can’t expect them to turn a blind eye to the problem either.

    Steve: There was an amusing typo in the comment that I have fixed in which the term “bling eye” was used. It’s not a question of turning a blind eye, but of recognizing what the problem really is. Sure, we can have cops riding shotgun on the TTC network, but that does nothing for the basic social problems, nor for improved safety once one gets off a bus, streetcar or train. If the media creates a problem, “TTC crime”, and then spins its stories to suit that assumption, we will waste a lot of effort on resources that won’t make much difference in overall public safety. They will, however, sell newspapers.


  13. Hi Steve and Miroslav:-

    I’m sorry that you have an inferiority complex about Scarborough. Crime wise, Jane and Driftwood is the centre of the ‘HooD’ isn’t it? I don’t think that’s in Scarberia. But Scarborough should have an inferiority complex for it saddled itself, eyes wide open and brain well shut, to the transit travesty that is ICTS. Now that was a criminal act perpetrated on the TTC!

    Dennis Rankin


  14. The TTC is looked for additional “special constables”. At the same time, the regular police will be riding the TTC.

    However, there is talk on the comment shows that all the “special constables” on the TTC should be replaced by the regular police.

    For me, the reason behind the additional special constables is that with the new LRV’s, the drivers will not be collecting fares or issuing transfers. That means the TTC needs the additional special constables to combat fare evasions. Which means that the “Proof Of Payment” or POP, currently on the 501, will spread, first to the streetcar network, then to the buses. If the special constables can take care of disturbances, then it would be a bonus.

    Steve: But the talents and passenger handling skills of a fare inspector are very different from a Special Constable who stands around looking very self important. The opportunity for selective inspection and enforcement can bring problems of their own.

    Remember, though, that the number of fare inspectors will be small compared to the fleet and the hours of service, and the probability that one will be on “your” bus or streetcar is comparatively low.


  15. What’s interesting is that out of the four incidents (shooting at Osgoode Station, stabbing at Wilson Station, pushing at Dufferin Station & shooting on Ossington bus) mentioned above, three happened at TTC subway station and the fourth on a TTC bus. The majority of TTC buses and streetcars now have at least 3-4 security cameras watching basically every inch of the interior of these vehicles. There are currently no security cameras on subways and subway stations have minimal security cameras,… not all areas of platform and walkways are covered. Since majority of TTC routes are bus & streetcars VS subways and since only 1 out of the four incidents happened on a bus/streetcar,… it looks like TTC security cameras are working as a deterant. Are these security cameras working to prevent crime on TTC property? Are passengers feeling safe now,… or feeling watched by big brother?


  16. Well, the bottom line for me is that I still feel safer riding the TTC, or walking for that matter, than driving. For every person injured or killed while riding the TTC, there are hundreds (maybe thousands) injured or killed in their cars in the GTA. I like my odds on the TTC…


  17. M. Briganti said: “Because public transit is used by the lower-middle class, and because the lower-middle class includes the “low life” element that you frequently see on the TTC — hoods with concealed guns, drunks, wackos, etc., others in higher socio-economic groups who might be inclined to use public transit by choice won’t . . .”

    The implication that violence is somehow linked to class, mental health or addiction is offensive and narrow-minded. Shall I assume “hood” refers to manner of dress, or are you implying a more specific group? Is it safe to infer that you believe that rich, healthy people do not commit violent acts and are in no way responsible for them?

    And, for the record, I have ridden in crowded TTC vehicles to work or school for twenty years, and have never once experienced or witnessed the kind of physical and verbal violence from a fellow rider that I have come to expect from car drivers.


  18. Did you say perceptions of a TTC crime wave are selling newspapers? With that industry struggling right now, how dare you stand in the way of their very own, home-grown stimulus package?

    According to the November 10, 1975 Toronto Star (which the Toronto Public Library offers online to those with a library card), a stabbing occurred on the escalator of a “deserted” St. Patrick Station on Friday, November 7, 1975 around 8 pm. The murder victim was Mariam Deborah Peters, 16, who was an “acquaintance” of TTC chair Gordon Hurlburt’s three daughters.

    Hurlburt was quoted as saying “I wouldn’t even let my own daughters ride that stretch of the line after the rush-hour.” He noted the University line closed at 9 pm each night, a policy begun “many years ago because of another stabbing”.

    The interesting thing about this story is it’s much the opposite of current TTC crimes. Today, the TTC doesn’t offer many opportunities to commit a crime without witnesses. Instead, the TTC has become its own little city, with its population peaking at several hundred thousand people during rush hour. Like any city of that size, there will be some crime; I really don’t get the impression what we’ve seen on the TTC recently is anything beyond that.

    Steve: Thanks for clarifying the history.


  19. I agree the media is blowing things out of control. But what boils down is the problems we face as an universe of human beings. Crime here or there, just about everywhere. Let’s attack the TTC, four serious incidents in two months … how many murders was there on the street, in our homes, parks and anywhere else.

    What about hard numbers here folks, how many people take the TTC a day compared to the rest of the population in Canada? What is the per capita rate of crime? Let’s crack some numbers.

    I would be willing to bet the deed on the house that serious crime is lower on TTC property than on the street. There’s no logic in the media and this will be an election issue that some of the stuck ups will not budge on. All of this will focus on the network expansion of LRT and buses, and how unsafe it is and how it is not needed just because “it is not safe.”

    Sounds like a desperate American style republican fear mongering, if the right plays this card I will vote for an indy.


  20. A few things.

    First, as someone who has been though our mental health system, I can attest it is indeed crap. I don’t mean to be graphic or to share TMI but I also went to a hospital to get help, and did not get help, and while I never debated throwing someone else in front of a train, I certainly thought about throwing myself in front of one.

    I won’t comment on other violent crimes, but on the mental health (Dufferin station) issue in particular, I think it shows that these are not TTC problems, these are social problems that have crept on to the TTC. The answer is not to push them elsewhere, the answer is to fix the damn problems.


  21. “According to the November 10, 1975 Toronto Star (which the Toronto Public Library offers online to those with a library card), a stabbing occurred on the escalator of a “deserted” St. Patrick Station on Friday, November 7, 1975 around 8 pm. The murder victim was Mariam Deborah Peters, 16, who was an “acquaintance” of TTC chair Gordon Hurlburt’s three daughters.”

    So, I was right about St. Patrick Stn, and sorta right about the TTC chair connection.

    I KNEW Alzheimers hadn’t claimed me yet. Yep, I knew it … Yep … What were we talking about?

    Steve: The issue was the varying ways in which the media react to violent events on the TTC, and how events that happen in the city generally are being portrayed, this week, as being a generic safety problem for TTC riders. The issue is the mis-characterization of the safety of the system for political and marketing reasons rather than addressing the larger questions of (a) limitations on how any space can be made “safe” for the public and (b) whether any form of monitoring actually deters crime, or at least pushes it into other, camera-free areas.

    By the way, I have deleted three comments asking why I don’t just kill off this topic. This is an important issue both from the view that the Sun may want to sell newspapers, and City may want to sensationalize its newscasts, but neither contributes to public understanding and debate.


  22. Lest we not forget there have been some rather important security incidents that recieved major news coverage, the Armenian bomb threats of the 80’s that effectively shut down the TTC for some time and brought about the highest level of security the TTC has ever seen.

    Steve: But in all of this, the media didn’t try to portray the TTC as if it was becoming a place where people across the city risked their lives every day. It was an incident affecting the city, not just the TTC, and presented as such.


  23. I was watching the noon hour news today and I can see what you mean. Back in 2007 there was plenty of exciting news about transit but now they have nothing to talk about except for people getting hit by cars and random street violence. Besides what’s next, “Person pushed in front of GO train at Union Station” (and then what, a frenzy for automatically controlled GO Trains??)?

    If I want real enlightening news, then usually I hike over to the Urban Affairs library at Metro Hall where they have a whole periodicals section with actual information that matters, like copies of Coupler magazine with inside info on the new Toronto Rocket subway trains. I don’t even order cable tv anymore and I find watching tv news through the airwaves a waste of time.

    Then I hear a story about how the CBC and other news services like the Toronto Star and CTV are struggling to survive, gee I wonder why? It’s all heading to the internet anyways and in a few more years the transition will be more or less done with. Sorry if I’m talking too much, the media drives me crazy too sometimes, which probably explains why Jon Stewart and the Daily Show are doing so well these days.


  24. On the topic of TPS taking over TTC security from the Special Constables: do we know if the New York model is one we can, or should, adopt? (i.e. the former MTA transit police merged with the NYPD).

    Steve: The New York model has significant differences. The MTA transit police force was quite large in its own right, and they were real “police” with comparable powers and training, I believe.


  25. Richard White said, “…the Armenian bomb threats of the 80’s that effectively shut down the TTC for some time and brought about the highest level of security the TTC has ever seen.”

    Unless I am thinking of something else, I don’t recall a shutting down of the TTC. What I am thinking of was a threat in 1985 that was not long after the SRT first opened up. It was a bomb threat to “blow up parts of Toronto’s transportation network”. I am partly paraphrasing here rather than quoting. The key thing is that I recall, and made many comments to others at the time that the media reported the word “transportation” and not “transit”.

    In typical media hype, despite using the word “transportation”, the spin on the story was that it was a threat against the TTC only, specifically the subway system. Garbage cans were sealed up and extra police presence was placed in stations. It was the most enjoyable week I had commuting from Scarborough to Ryerson!

    As I recall, this story was so very TTC-focused that I don’t recall if GO stations had garbage cans sealed up or not.

    Quite honestly, I rode the subway in comfort that week feeling that if it was a real terrorist threat to “blow up the transportation network”, it wouldn’t take too many brains to realize that a dozen well-placed bombs under sewer covers would do far more mayhem up on the streets when a large part of the commuting population was afraid to take the subway. It is so easily forgotten that roads are part of our transportation network.

    Tying it in to this topic, the media can so easily shift the focus from a city-at-large problem to one that is TTC-centric.


  26. Steve says:
    “The New York model has significant differences. The MTA transit police force was quite large in its own right, and they were real “police” with comparable powers and training, I believe.”

    New York City subway transit system also has Guardian Angels,… a group that our Mayor David Miller, our chief of Police and TTC does NOT want patrolling our TTC subways,…. mainly arguing that TTC buses & streetcars were getting security cameras. Seeing that 3 out of the 4 above mentioned incidents (shooting at Osgoode Station, stabbing at Wilson Station, pushing at Dufferin Station & shotting on Ossington bus) happend at subway stations where there are currently less security cameras coverage than on buses and streetcars,…. maybe the Guardian Angels presence on TTC subways might have helped.


  27. The way I look at it police are useful, people who are obligated not to get involved, only sit back and watch until police arrive to actually do something, at which point its too late are not useful. I would rather have cameras there. The cameras are admissible in court in 99.9% of cases, as they capture what really happens, people’s memory can be foggy and therefore not the most compelling evidence.


  28. Someone doesn’t have to be murdered, assaulted or even cursed at to feel uncomfortable. For every news story there’s likely hundreds more from people who felt threatened in some way while using the TTC – whether it was on a vehicle, waiting at a stop or in a station. These situations do nothing to make people feel secure about the TTC – and likely terrify some of them even more when they hear about the unfortunate people who actually are assaulted or killed.

    Regardless, if I am going from Long Branch to Yonge and Steeles at 2:00 am I would likely feel safer in my car.


  29. Hi Steve, Calvin and Richard:-

    I was a part of this search and recall that it was two nights not just one, for I earned so much overtime, thanx to that call out, I was able to buy my trusty Nikon.

    We had guests at dinner when I was called to a meeting in the late evening, I thought Saturday. Each TTC employee in attendance was well versed in walking at track level and was paired up with a Metro Officer. Each pair of us was assigned a stretch of track to patrol and call in when done. The line closed and the traction power went off at almost precisely midnight. We did the same meeting, then walked the same stretch of track the next night too.

    Ahh, memories!

    Dennis Rankin


  30. I stopped watching Shity TV long ago….The comments here about them brings back memories as to why I avoid them…They blow everything out of proportion and glorify Toronto as a violent plagued city. Sorry about using that word Steve but its true. They fail to look at the big picture. Arming our special constables or replacing them with police would help a bit but overall, there will always be crime on TTC. I was attacked by two guys when I was younger right outside Bathurst station. A wonderful older lady intervened by using her purse, screaming and gouging these guys as they were all over me. This lady was about 60 years old Steve and I will never forget her. These guys wanted my cap…My point is I never stopped using the TTC but I became more vigilant from that day forward…


  31. I love how the media and the TTC chairmen are attacking the TTC constables instead of dealing with the crime directly. I believe that we need more TTC Constables, AND Police in and around the subway!


  32. I have to strongly disagree with you about the platform screen doors being a “make-work” project. Until the TTC installs platform screen doors, there will always be suicides and people pushed on to the tracks in the subway system. Improved mental health services will help, but it will only reduce these incidents somewhat; they will never be eliminated. Furthermore, many of these incidents occur in the “heat of the moment”, so you can’t really argue that they’ll all be moved elsewhere if platform screen doors are installed. Suicides and homicides on the subway system have an enormous social and economic cost to society. Furthermore, suicides and homicides, as well as track fires caused by litter on the tracks, cause significant delays to TTC riders.

    Furthermore, full-height platform screen doors would allow proper heating and air conditioning in subway systems, which would attract ridership.

    Steve: I will say this again. Until the Dufferin Station incident, platform doors were way on the back burner at the TTC, but suddenly have appeared as an important project, and oh, by the way, something that requires ATO to implement, so we’d better get on with full ATO as soon as possible.

    The TTC has not addressed many other types of delay such as equipment failure (some of which oddly enough involve doors), and some delays involve onboard incidents such as passenger illnesses that have nothing to do with criminal activities.

    Yes, suicides are unfortunate and I am not trying to downplay them, but they will be with us one way or another.

    My point is that there are many contributions to delays and service interruptions. We need to look at all of them and how they can be minimized, not grab one megaproject as a magic solution on the strength of one incident.


  33. Thanks to Richard White for the link about the 1985 incident. That is what I was talking about, but I had forgotten that the subway was shut down early over the weekend.

    I do still recall the “transportation system” threat as described in the media, but in retrospect it may have been a result of the media not being made aware of the situation earlier on and possibly not getting all the details at the time.

    The 1968 incidents were mostly news to me, as I had not been aware of their occurrence (being only 4 years old at the time, was likely a factor). For some reason though, reading about it woke up a vague memory of a story about dynamite being found behind a school.


  34. One needs to take things into perspective, the TTC has over 300,000,000 trips per year, the fact that we get 10 security incidents big enough to be newsworthy per year, big deal. Operators have the ability to contact emergency services at a push of a button on their vehicle radio, so police already are readily available if needed.


  35. “the TTC has over 300,000,000 trips per year, the fact that we get 10 security incidents big enough to be newsworthy per year, big deal.” is becoming a very enlighting source of information – in the past 72 hours there have been three power-offs in the subway system, at least two (one at Dundas, which I was caught by and one at High Park) of which involved passengers at track level and possibly the third at Vic Park.

    Like SRT breakdowns, just because the newspapers don’t print it, doesn’t mean it’s not happening. The advent of TTC service alerts and Twitter will expose a lot more of the glitches in the system that the individual passenger never has access to unless involved directly.


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