In response to a comment in the thread about TTC costs, someone claimed that a TTC operator made $75K per year. The perception of how well paid, or not, an operator is deserves its own thread, and here is a comment I received on the subject from an operator named Gord:
Just a quick comment to correct a little bit of mis-information showing up in this discussion. Tom B. states that TTC operators earn about $30.00 per hour. I wish I did. The actual top rate of pay is $26.58 per hour for an operator with over 30 months on the job.
Doing the basic math shows that $26.58 X 40 X 52 = $55,286.40 annually. If you factor in the cost of our benefits, pension, etc., I am sure that you can make the argument that we earn more than this but that is not what I actually receive in my pay each week.
Just to set the record straight: I am paid for 8 hours and 53 minutes each weekday BUT my actual workday is 11 hours and 46 minutes long because I work split shifts (swing work in TTC parlance). I start work at 5:49 am and do not finish until 5:35 pm with 4 hours and 16 minutes between the two pieces of work that I do.
I’m not complaining; I choose my own work and I enjoy what I do (like most TTC operators). I don’t have weekends off (but get two weekdays off instead) because only the most senior operators can get this work.
In terms of operators/collectors showing up on the Sunshine list, think of how many hours they have had to work to get there. This is because there is a lot more work available than there are operators to do it. In order to provide service, the TTC needs to pay overtime to fill the vacancies.
You are correct to state that recruitment is falling short. There are a lot of trainees who do not make it through training, and there are also a number who do not make it through their first year on the job due to the stress involved.
Working for the TTC isn’t a “9 to 5″ job (unless you drive a night bus). We’re on the job long before most people even wake up in order to be there when they want to go to work.
I’m sorry about the length of this comment (maybe you could start a new topic on the typical day in the life of a TTC operator).
Steve: Don’t worry about the length of the comment. Some of my regular contributors are rather long-winded themselves. Thanks for filling in this information for others to see.
Just one bit of clarification: The reason for the oddball amount of time in a day is that an operator is paid for the time actually scheduled for the run plus some basic allowances such as travel time to and from the route if they don’t pick up the bus or streetcar at a garage or carhouse. Very few operators get exactly 40 hours pay per week because it is impossible to divide up the work that way.
Comments on this post have been closed. I am not running a site for info on how to apply for jobs at the TTC or pass their screening tests.
Steve Munro 
I agree that the operators don’t make $75K/year, but it isn’t unreasonable to think that’s what it costs the TTC for each operator, once you consider salary, benefits, pension, payroll taxes, and other ancillary per-employee costs. This is not to begrudge the employees at all, but simply a reflection of the actual cost for every employee. This is relevant both to the issue of hiring, and laying off (if, in fact, service cuts are coming).
Steve: The point I was making is that $75K is a fully burdened cost with benefits included, not the operator’s take-home pay and, moreover, that the handful who made over $100K worked a potload of overtime to get it.
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Hi Steve.
Some of my best friends are TTC operators. Here are some facts that I have both seen and heard from them.
Did you know that the people who drive the BLUENIGHT buses don’t actually get much layover time? IF ANY AT ALL!
One person that I know has been driving the night buses for his whole career, he starts at 9pm and does not finish till 5:40am, in that time, he starts driving a regular route, does 4 round trips on that route, then starts the 300 Bloor BLUENIGHT while he is driving that route, he gets NO LAYOVERS, NO time to use the washroom, so thats about 4 1/2 hours not getting out of the seat.
While doing this run he gets the weirdest and worst people possible (including Rude Drunks!). Now don’t get me wrong he enjoys his job, but there are some serious drawbacks to this job. I won’t list them, but they can be severe.
Another friend I know is a Streetcar Operator and has many stories! But in the hot weather these folks driving the streetcars learn one thing, BAKING in the Seat! I’m not kidding, the heat is really bad for streetcar operators. Frosted in the winter, Toasty in the Summer is one phrase I’ve heard.
Just the other Day I was on one friends bus and this guy after not getting a transfer from my friend (we were just leaving Islington Station heading southbound) Called my friend a B***H, another person a few minutes later after sitting behind the driver’s seat got up as he was getting off and said “the only people that drive buses are only doing it because they are not only retarded but also not fit to do any other job, since driving a bus all day is for mentally retarded and they get paid too much, I would rather see them dead than pay their wages, bus drivers should be shot on sight” he then got off.
My friend just sat there and took it, he couldn’t do or say anything, because if he had he would have been accused of slander and racisim (the guy was black as was the Fare dispute guy).
Another Friend that has been with TTC for over 20 years has been shot at twice, beaten up and spat at numerous times, as well as getting stuff thrown at him, He now refuses to drive the 36 FINCH or the 35 Jane bus.
So NO, I dont think that $26.58 is TOO much to pay these people, Yes, I said PEOPLE, since most passengers that get the TTC seem to think otherwise of TTC drivers and Operators.
(( just Search FACEBOOK for TTC and you’ll see why I say that!))
I grew up around Bus Drivers in Hamilton and have been helped a lot by them, SO I have gained a DEEP RESPECT for each person that drives a Public Transit Vehicle.
Sorry for the long Post steve, but I had to get it out.
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If Toronto is anything like Los Angeles, during times of operator shortages – like apparently now – run cutters will cut runs that are as close to the legally permitted maximum working hours as possible. In L.A., this results in many operators being paid more for 10 hours of work per day, which when overtime is added is equivalent to $26.58*12*40*52 – which is 50% more than if they only worked 8 hours per day. It wouldn’t surprise me if a great percentage of drivers grossed $75,000 before deductions for taxes, union dues, etc.
The top rate in Toronto is 20% more than the top rate for a driver in LA, which has a comparable number of annual riders (although slightly less). I used to be a bus driver, and bus driving is very hard work, harder than most people probably realize. However, I think it would be a mistake to argue that TTC drivers are not extremely well compensated in comparison to other bus drivers.
In addition, I don’t know how pensions work for the TTC but with LA Metro, you can get a full pension after 23 years of work, regardless of what age you are. It’s not uncommon for someone to become a bus driver at 21, work for 23 years, retire at 44 and collect a full pension – and then rehire as a bus driver – thereby being paid twice by Metro – once for current work, and once for the pension. Eventually you’ll retire a second time and have 2 pensions.
Steve: No such luck here. Sounds like LA Metro has a very generous collective agreement. As for pay rates, they may seem “generous”, but we have trouble hiring and keeping operators. As you said, it’s very hard work.
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Let’s just say that I am appalled at the salary figures for TTC employees.
I have been with my company for over 4 years. I work as a software developer, and I get paid 52K a year. It galls me that civic servants, due to the bombastic nature of their unions can make more than me while doing less. There are times in which I have to work late in order to get the next release out on time. I accrue no overtime at all. If I’m lucky, I may get an annual performance bonus of about $2000. And this is the compensation standard of other employees in my capacity. We’ve spent gobloads of money to get an education so we can all get decent jobs with large requirements. To find out that we did all this for a job that pays less than bus drivers and garbagemen (don’t get me started on these guys), both with a lower educational standard, is offensive to the hard working taxpayers of Ontario.
The TTC is hobbled by one critical flaw: that the transit workers are not deemed essential personnel and therefore still have the right to strike. May I remind the TTC and the Province of Ontario (who refused to confer this “essential personnel” designation to transit workers but wanted to confer this to teachers during the Harris days, which makes no sense) that the TTC is the backbone of this city. If the TTC goes out of service for just one day, you can be sure that there is a lot of economic harm for Torontonians. I know how that feels, as I was forced to take a day off during the recent wildcat strike.
Because the TTC workers have a right to strike, this is basically their point weapon in making outrageous demands against TTC management, demands the management know is expensive. I believe TTC management and commissioner Giambrone when they say that they don’t have money to run all the services needed for all Torontonians.
Fine, I am anti-union, but I believe that the reason why the TTC and by extension, the city, is in this financial mess is because of the financial straightjacket imposed by the unions. Increasing labour costs means less financial freedom, which means the city is now painted into a corner. We cut service and increase fares to make up for the shortfall. And don’t get me started on when the city caved into extravagant union demands days before Pope John Paul II was to arrive in Toronto for World Youth day. Garbagemen making $56K a year (more than I make)? You can thank Unions for that.
Steve: Alas software developers these days are competing with labour in Asia who will do the same work for a fraction of the cost. In the balmier days, anyone who claimed a passing knowledge of software design could command handsome consulting fees, and some still do. You have my sympathy, but not support for cutting TTC salaries.
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I still stand by my original post; that the median wage (before benefits) of TTC workers is likely around $75K a year (that is the point where half earn less and half earn more). If the standard wage is $55K and some can earn $110K (even with a lot of over time) then I think $75K is a reasonable statistical midpoint.
Indeed getting paid for overtime itself is quite a perk that is very uncommon in the (non-unionized) private sector (about 85% of us). I know this is technically illegal but for most workers this is academic; regardless of whether they are motivated by ambition or fear, citing the relevance clauses of the Employment Standards Act isn’t going to help them much.
Your comment above about software designers seems to belie a belief that public sectors workers should be unconditionally shielded from the vagaries of the marketplace, which I supposed would be nice, if it were possible over the long term. I’m no right winger, but I do tend to agree with the late Dr. Friedman on this one; there is no free lunch; advocating well-funded transit is not quite the same as negotiating all the trade-offs involved in figuring out how to pay for it.
Steve: You miss one basic point — the operators don’t have to work the overtime if they don’t want to. If you don’t pay them, they will stay home. As I have written before, the TTC has enough problems retaining staff given the pressures of driving transit vehicles. For maintenance staff, the TTC is competing with a labour shortage in the skilled trades.
Let’s try some classic free-market rhetoric: if there is a shortage of any product (labour in this case), then the price goes up. You can set lower standards for potential employees, hire at a lower wage rate and force staff to work unpaid overtime. Even if you can find staff, don’t expect them to stay long or be the most reliable, high-quality workforce.
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With all due respect, Steve, I think that that you are expanding the definition of “skilled” a bit too broadly. It is one thing to say that engineering personnel and technicians are members of skilled trades, another thing to say that operators are skilled, and yet another thing to say that fare collectors and station maintenance staff are skilled. By that definition, what type of TTC job would be “unskilled”?
This distinction matters because the point that I and other posters are making is that salaries of unskilled TTC employees seem to be too high. Does a collector of TTC fares have a vastly different job from a collector of movie fares? Does a janitor at a subway station have a vastly different job from a janitor at the ACC or your average bar? I guarantee that their private-sector counterparts don’t make anywhere close to $55k-$75k/year. Why should the public sector pay a higher wage at the expense of riders and taxpayers?
No one begrudges the right of skilled workers to earn their keep. Heck, if they’re leaving in the numbers that you suggest, pay them more. What rankles us are disproportionately high salaries for people whose jobs require comparatively little education and only a few weeks’ worth of training (at most).
Steve: When I referred to skilled trades, I was talking about the TTC’s maintenance staff who look after vehicles and infrastructure. Station collectors are not paid as much as operators, except in cases where a collector is actually an operator who is on light duties recovering from an accident or illness. Caretakers are not paid as much as operators either.
I think my biggest complaint about the messages saying “these people make too much” is that it’s a typical line thrown at people in the public sector. There may be individual job classifications we can debate, but the vast majority of the union staff at the TTC is made up of operators and members of the skilled trades. You’re not going to solve budget woes on the backs of the caretakers.
The last time the TTC tried to arbitrarily change caretakers’ working conditions, we had a one-day strike, and the TTC lost at the Labour Relations Board, an organization not noted for its bleeding heart left wing orientation.
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Steve, as always you make good points in an eloquent and civil way. One quibble, though. Were you talking about the wildcat strike on May 29, 2006? My understanding is that the OLRB ordered the striking workers back to work and that there were rumblings afterward about taking the union and the strikers to court. I don’t recall that the TTC “lost.”
Steve: Yes, in that case the TTC “won” at the OLRB because the strike was illegal. However, a later ruling supported the ATU’s claim that the TTC did not have the right to arbitratily change the work hours and conditions of the cleaners/caretakers. Therefore, the reason for the wildcat was vindicated even if the actual tactic was not.
Taking the ATU to court seems to have quietly dropped off of the table.
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High quality service? I beg to differ.
I agree with Curious’s comments. It’s one thing to have well paid TTC operators. It is completely another thing when said operators do not provide the “high-quality service” the public expects from the TTC.
Mind you, while I have had my share of courteous operators on the TTC, I also have had bad experiences with operators who think they have a right to make your day a very bad one. If we are paying the TTC workers this much in terms of salary, then we should expect the “high level of quality service” from them. I however feel that I am not getting that. Especially when I make complaints to the TTC about operator X, very little is done, mostly due to the fact that the Union will attempt to block any discipline against their members, even though said member is a complete jerk.
Unfortunately, with these bad apples, it leads the rest of us taxpayers to ponder if we are really getting enough for our fares and tax money.
Steve: Intriguingly, from the Union’s point of view (and judging by some of the mail I receive), operators have the impression that “the customer is always right” and they will never win against any complaints. When they follow the rules, they are told to use their judgement; when they try to use their judgement, they are hauled up for violating policy.
Obviously it’s not as cut-and-dried as that, but that’s the other side of the story.
As far as pay levels, would you agree to be paid based on the performance of the worst of your co-workers?
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I don’t quite understand why riders expect operators to cater to them like a waiter — the service being provided is safe (and as much as possible, prompt) transit between two points. Courtesy and friendliness are in fact optional, so let’s recognize that so many operators do take time to smile and be extra helpful. Many operators are very courteous and helpful; others less so. By far though, most of the rudeness and obnoxiousness that I’ve encountered on the TTC is from passengers, not operators.
Given what it takes to install a suitably trained operator in a TTC vehicle to provide safe and skilled transit service, a salary of $55k to $75k doesn’t seem at all unreasonable. It’s always difficult to compare salaries from different jobs, but since software development has been noted, I could mention from my own experience (over 20 years in technology fields) that a developer with the right training, experience and ability can easily earn well above the $75k range. There’s one industry example that would show that the TTC doesn’t seem to be overpaying.
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Steven, you try very hard to defend the overpaid TTC workers by justifying how their “skills” deserve a $75K pay. But, let me give you some personal facts.
I am a Senior Programmer Analyst and work as a project leader for the IT department at Tyco (a multi-billion dollar company). I have 10 years of experience in this field. By qualification, I am a mechanical engineer and worked in Mercedes Benz for 8 years before switching to programming. When I first joined as a programmer, I made around $60K, but with experience under my belt, I now make $73K. This is very comparable to what my colleagues earn. Our company has branches in US and Australia and fellow workers there earn an equivalent salary. Out of the $73K, I paid $33K in taxes alone last year (since I fall in the high-income tax bracket), which leaves me with only $40K to take home.
Now the question is, do you think it’s really fair for a someone with a high school degree who works the same hours as I do, driving a bus (no not an F1 car or a space shuttle but a bus!) to be paid the same as I do? Yes, there are the Alaskan crab fishers who make more than $100K in BARELY 3 WEEKS, but that’s only because its the most dangerous job on earth. And Alaskan crabs are a delicacy afterall.
My son is doing Computer Engineering at University of Toronto. It’s needless to say how expensive it is. $9000 tuition fee, $1000 in books and $800 in transportation. It totals out to about $10K per YEAR! And what for is he doing all this? Only to end up earning as much as the guy who drives him to university everyday?
Steve: I am an IT manager in a very large shop in Toronto, and the top pay for our non-supervisory technical staff is just under $40/hour, or about $73K a year (based on a 35-hour week), about the same as you make. To this must be added the value of benefits, roughly another 20%, for a total of, say, $88K.
The $70K+ figures quoted for TTC operators include their benefits. Operators who make substantially more are working overtime to do so. It is illegal not to pay them for this work, and indeed they would be crazy to do it for free.
Just driving someone to university means that the operator must be on the road at the crack of dawn in whatever weather and traffic conditions apply each day. Unless this operator has been working for a very long time and has the seniority to pick plum routes and shifts, they will almost certainly work at least one, if not both, days on weekends. They will also work split shifts, or shifts that begin and end at very different hours than university classes or the time worked by most IT staff except during emergencies and pre-planned off-hours maintenance. Working from home is not an option for an operator.
The IT industry used to be horrendously overpaid, and some consultants still rake in a fortune compared to what they are really worth. However, outsourcing to India has reduced the domestic market for IT staff, and salaries are not, in general, as outrageous as they once were.
Many operators are hired who don’t last more than a few years because they cannot take the hours or the stress, and they’re the ones who made it through the screening and training. If we want to have people driving our transit vehicles, we have to pay them wages that reflect the market and the difficulty of attracting and retaining staff.
As for the Alaskan crabs, well, it’s called free-market economics. If someone does something that many people want really badly, then they command very high pay for doing it. I am not sure that the Queen car has reached quite that level.
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I love this thread, thanks for the great read. I find it amusing to say the least. The comparison of an IT worker to a TTC worker. Laughable. And no I am not an education snob, I think its fine for some trades to make more money than I. I don’t think that education is the be all and end all to making more money, the TTC is a prime example however there are many more. So to all the TTC workers out there, this is not directly pointing the finger at the TTC however the situaiton with the TTC is somewhat unique.
I too am in IT, I rarely get away with working anything less than a 50+ hour work week. So I think that the TTC workers have it pretty good. Even if I made 70K per year, I would never come close to the hourly wage that a TTC worker makes. And the IT worker does not receive a pension, nor the same number of sick days, nor the educational perks etc etc…that the TTC unions have put in place for their greedy employees.
Free Market economics??? Hmmm…lets talk about free market economics, the TTC has nothing to do with free market economics. If it did then I would be able to buy a bus tomorrow and start running a competitive service to the TTC on their routes. The TTC is a monopoly. It is a required service to keep this city running. It is unfortunate that the people most burdoned by the union’s greed is those workers that really can’t afford the constant fare increases.
While we are comparing LA bus drivers to Toronto bus drivers, why not throw in Detroit bus drivers into the mix as well. Has anyone bothered to look at the seriously injured/killed bus drivers from large U.S. cities compared to Toronto? Common…I wouldn’t dare try to compare the two. Granted, Jane and Finch would be a crappy route to drive but hey, staying late in IT on a Friday night, working Saturdays and Sundays at all hours of the night is not that pleasant either.
And yes while we don’t have to deal with the Drunks and idiots on the TTC, we do end up riding with them on a daily basis…luckily we only have to deal with them for an hour and a half per day vs. 8 hours per day…but riders of the ttc also have to deal with this crap and then go to work and do their job.
While we are union bashing and talking about high wages, I think that it would be worthwhile mentioning former strikes by caretakers in the city of Toronto. The claim by the unions was that it would be unfair to sub out work to private companies as the private companies typically pay $12 per hour vs. the government unions $18 per hour wage…hmmm…why must we subsidize these people on the backs of the taxpayer. No wonder we can’t balance budgets. oh wait, we are…yet I don’t get it…my taxes are going up…and trust me, I don’t live in an extravagant house but I anticipate that I will be paying over $4000 in taxes now and I would suggest my house is probably below average by Toronto standards.
There is no free market economy with the TTC. The unions can continue to strike and command additional raises, the pubic can cry fowl but there is no competition and never will be. And no GO does not count for competition.
Why does the TTC require so many subsidies? Why don’t we put the TTC on a diet and force them to operate within their own means? Becuase they will lobby and say that they cannot meet their obligations and will cut back service…a required service that the city cannot live without…and so we continue to go in circles.
And the greed will only get worse as gas prices increase and ridership increases…its all about supply and demand and demand should rise. The unfortunate thing about TTC is that the demand/ridership is not rising the way that it should…I guess we have to look at price elasticity…because prices are increasing so rapidly with TTC the ridership is not going up as quickly as it should becuase the alternatives that are becoming more expensive…ie driving your car to work are not increasing that much more dramatically than the cost of taking TTC.
I think it is sad that it is cheaper for me to drive my car to work than take the TTC. We might as well cancel the TTC. Why not just keep the subway lines and privatize the buses…it may end up like the 407 and the public will be gouged but a guarantee there won’t be bus drivers making 70K per year. and maybe the greedy private companies will donate some of their profits to charity…at least they are giving back instead of lining the unions pockets
And then I guess we will have someone say that it is not economically feasible to have public transit run profitably. But that can’t be true…how does WestJet survive?
The bottom line, TTC workers are well paid and if they were not unionized and if there was actually competition there is no way they would ever be able to command the current wage that they earn.
Its not right, its not wrong and let’s be clear, there isn’t a damn thing we can do about it!
Steve: I have left this rant more or less intact with a bit of reformatting and spelling fixups. A few points deserve comment, but the rest I will just leave:
Expansion of the TTC is constrained by capital — how many vehicles, how many miles of route — and ridership growth is constrained by the lack of capacity, not by price. This has nothing to do with operators, but with the skinflint governments at all levels who don’t want to pay for a bigger system.
Westjet has a huge advantage over the TTC — it gets to pick and choose the routes and times it flies. Transit service is expected to be in operation everywhere at least 18 hours per day whether it is profitable or not.
Cheaper to drive your car to work? Only after you ignore the capital cost of buying the car and the ongoing cost of maintaining it. Last year, I paid about $1100 on Metropasses. Try buying, insuring and operating a car for that.
Finally, the TTC has an ongoing problem getting enough people who want to work for them as operators and can handle the stress of the job. Cut the pay significantly and see if you can find a workforce.
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Quality of service, you ever ride the 105 bus, I rely on that every morning for work and 3 times a week the bus either just doesn’t show up on the hour or the half or shows up early and leaves early or shows up 15 minutes late – and always with no announcement or notification, cripes 2 weeks ago 90minutes passed by with nary a bus…it’s a travesty.
And yes, TTC employees are paid too much…I laughed at the recent Sun article where near the end they justify high salary by saying “but he handles money with germs and blood on it”…WHAT?!? Try working at an Esso (making 10.75/hr, the skillset there is probably higher than a fare collector and much, much more dangerous)
TTC, giving unions a bad name….and providing a disservice for other unions by undermining public opinion of a very important factor re workers rights.
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one more thing, metrolinx should take it over, I laugh at the squirming that goes on when the TTC tries to wiggle out of it with their ‘but it needs a uniquely Toronto solution’…whats that, like a unique wildcat strike, 6 streetcars on King right behind each other than a gap of 40 minutes until the next one – all the while 2 supervisors stand around at the same corner near spadina/john streets (I mean I have seen it numerous occasions with 2 supers standing there)…or perhaps you’re referring to the uniquely inevitable short-turn??
Steve: Two separate issues here.
First, I too have seen pairs of supervisors frequently on the downtown routes. The whole idea is that they are supposed to be at different locations to manage the route from various vantage points, but things don’t quite work out that way. This is a management issue, not a union problem (by reference to your previous comment).
Second, anyone who thinks that a Metrolinx takeover will miraculously cause things to improve forgets that Metrolinx doesn’t have an army of trained staff just sitting there ready to take over, and the same folks will be running everything at the level passengers see. Add to this a Metrolinx board dominated by suburban politicians who have scant concern for streetcar service downtown, let alone the minutia of how to make lines work properly, and your complaints will fall on even deafer ears with a regional agency.
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I stumbled on this website as I’ve been searching for as much information on what the advantages and disadvantages of working for the TTC (mainly bus/train/streetcar drivers). The majority of the employees are transit operators as the company’s main services falls under that category.
I’m a young professional and I don’t have fancy words about economic standards, etc…etc… But I do have my own comments and reply to some of the postings I’ve read on this site.
What I feel towards the TTC changed dramatically over the last few months. Mainly because I’ve applied to work for TTC and currently going through the recruitment process to become a transit operator. Prior to my application, I’ve shared the same feelings and dilemma many of you have said. “The TTC employees are overpaid, they’re rude, service sucks, and so on, and so on..” I rely on the TTC heavily, I use it 7 days a week, my daily trip combined is about 3 – 4 hours.
I don’t think it’s fair to say that TTC employees are overpaid unskilled workers. Sure, their requirements allow high school graduates only to apply, but I can tell you that the recruitment process is very rigorous and taken very seriously. They don’t sugar coat and tell you outright that being an operator is very demanding, high risk and dangerous. Does not only affect yourself, but your family, schedule, your whole life pretty much. You go through a series of interviews, job shadowing assignments, physical, and training (in which I might add, is very high standard – combined driving and written aptitude tests with at least 80% passing requirement and if you fail, you’re terminated out right).
I also wanted to point out, that TTC recruits a lot of the visible minority groups and women which gives opportunities to many immigrants living in Toronto. Oh yeah, many of them highly educated from their originating countries but couldn’t find a decent job because their academic [credentials] are not recognized. They end up working as cab drivers, in gas stations, as Janitors, etc..etc.. I’m sure we’ve all heard that before. Not everyone has the opportunity to study and graduate in Canada and get good jobs as everyone hopes to get. So, let’s not pass judgment and say transit operators are overpaid and unskilled workers.
I’m a business analyst for a large financial firm and consider myself paid adequately (50k) per year. Just like the programmers or software developers on this thread, I worked extremely hard to get to where I am right now. I CHOSE to do all the things I did to be in this position, nobody forced me to be in this industry. So I’m not COMPLAINING about how much TTC workers make even though they didn’t work hard to get there … (as said by other people on this thread).
So QUIT your whining and complaining and keep doing what you do best … besides, if you don’t meet your deadline and deliverables, which may cause delay on the project/software implementation for a client, which may cause them to lose money and result in dissatisfaction, do you think those clients are going to come visit you on your fancy safe cubicle, and start yelling, kicking, beating and throwing things at you???? I THINK NOT.
The drivers may get paid a lot, but they RISK a lot, they’re in the front lines. Try sitting on a bus through a whole shift, and see what they go through in a day … the number of rude riders outnumber the number of rude drivers in great quantity.
I’m sorry, but many people are so quick to pass judgment and criticize TTC’s operators..but don’t realize the kind of things they go through daily to provide service to the public.
By the way, the article a few days ago about the TTC employee who made 100k last year … is a hard working immigrant who worked extra hours and sacrificed not seeing his family so he can provide for them, was injured on the job (shoulder injury) and was unable to perform so he was transferred to sell tickets and handle money with blood and germs. A lot of people who work as ticket agents put in their time and work hard before they get into that position.
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Steve: I am publishing this comment only for the purpose of responding to it. Yes, there are operators who make more than $100K/year — 41 of them — and they do this by working a lot of overtime.
When you read through the “sunshine list”, note how many people are just over the 100K line. If this threshold had been indexed to inflation from its origins in the dark Harris days of the 1990s, the line would stand at $125K today, and the list would be much, much shorter than this.
This is not to excuse excessive payments where they occur, but it is totally unfair to imply that operators are overpaid because less than one percent of them work lots of overtime and get fat paycheques as a result.
wtf are you guys talking about?
There are TTC operators that make over 100k a year.
See [here].
Search for: city of toronto- toronto transit comission, operators
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And how much education do you need to pull in that salary? I’m sorry – but a new teacher (likely with a hefty investment in his/her education over several years) – doesn’t make that much per hour and works just as many, if not more, hours. This past month I have been at school by 8 and haven’t left until 8. You make a decent living without that much investment (from what I can tell, anyway) so I am sorry if I’m not sympathetic. I’d rather have saved my money, be free of student loans, be able to go home without any homework still to be done…
You’re losing all sympathy and…it’s quite likely that eventually, after this, much work will be contracted out – because then we don’t have to worry about his happening.
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Yeah, ttc job is not a dream job, but c’mon. Anyone in the private sector who expects to make as much as these guys with the minimum education and other investments needed to become a driver or sell tickets is crazy. I know a lot of people who are in debt to go through university and then get a job making the same or less than these guys.
Some ttc customers (especially young people) are rude and annoying, but that doesn’t excuse the terrible service. To go to work and go back home I always leave 20-30mins because the bus is so unreliable. And people wonder why folks will take out a loan to buy a car and pay gas prices.
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I’m laughing at the people here who are indignant that they spent a shedload for their education and they now earn less than a TTC worker or garbageman. Simply being educated isn’t some automatic entry to the world of the highly salaried. I lived in Toronto from 2003 to 2005 and it was fairly apparent that the university system in Canada, and most likely all of North America, was sold to people as ‘study, get a job, get a better salary’. The educational pursuits were pushed as ways to improve your income. In the real world, that simply doesn’t work, which is why you now have a ton of overqualified baristas. I could go into my theory about how university education was hijacked as a method of forcing young people into heavy amounts of debt and thus needing to take any job going once they graduated but that’s another essay.
All you software engineers whining out there: get real. Go to your office, look at the attractive people working there, the air conditioned room, the water dispenser etc. Then tell me your working conditions are worse than those of a garbageman. Tell me your office is in fact worse than driving a bus of drunks in the small hours. Tell me you get repeated abuse from members of the public. If software engineers went on strike the same day as TTC workers, I know which service the public would miss most. Doing a foul shitty job deserves decent pay.
As an Englishman who lived in Toronto from 2003 to 2005, it was fascinating seeing the differences and similarities between both countries. In my opinion, public sector employees have every right to strike when they have consistently been shat upon by governments. The TTC workers are right to strike about the notion of contracting out work. In the UK, so much public sector work has been contracted out at great cost to the taxpayer. It becomes a false economy in every way. If any Torontonian doubts that, I invite them to go and analyse the recent history of the British rail service. it was a disaster of privatisation, has cost the country millions in bailout money and is still an absolute shambles. For all the money thrown and invested and wasted, it is no better than it was ten years ago. Something as vital for the taxpayer and the public as the TTC should be kept within the public sector and services should not be contracted out.
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WE ALL WORK HARD. Every TTC driver, teacher, engineer, programmer, doctor, nurse, janitor, chef, waiter, manager, CEO… we all do. We all work hard and put up with a lot of crap. It’s called work.
So let’s not get into a pissing contest on who has it hard.
This is why the free market is the best way to determine how much people get paid. Unions are fine… if they are in the private sector. They are inevitably balanced by the market. If the workers demand too much, the company loses money, and is corrected.
The problem with the public sector unions is they get a monopoly and the tax payer is the infinite source of funds. They also don’t face competition or anything, so who knows if you’re getting a good deal? If the TTC was entirely funded by fares, I could care less what transit workers make. Yet, they’re taking my tax money and giving it to them… which is a big deal.
It is a sweet deal. I’ve known engineers in Ottawa who left the field to become transit workers. If you don’t think this is going to ruin the country, you should check again. If our best and brightest and out there in the public sector, who is going to be in the wealth generating parts of the economy?
It’s a serious enough question. And yes, the world is flattening out. As Asia/Latin America gets richer, our quality of life IS GOING TO COME DOWN. Face reality. We’re not going to be able to keep up with public sector union demands to never face a reduction in the standard of living.
Suffice to say, it is not the base pay of many of these public sector jobs that is the problem. It is the pension plans, the overtime… that really is the issue. 50-70K for a good TTC bus driver isn’t all that bad. Factor in overtime and it starts to be an issue. I used to work for Ontario Hydro (before privatization). Trust me… we also used to scam overtime until it ended.
As to privatization. I disagree with most of it. As there are normally pretty crappy contracts. I mean rather than pay the companies, I would rather them give transit subsidies directly to poor workers and let the private sector companies fight it out in the free market transit system.
I know this is very unpopular in Toronto. But for example in education, we should just give vouchers to parents. And let the private sector / non profit sector provide the school. We just make sure through vouchers that every child has equal cost opportunity to go to any school. That’s the best way to deliver service and ensure equality. BC, Alberta, Chile, Sweden… all provide this kind of system to some extent and it hasn’t ruined their social harmony.
You can’t really do this with transit. Especially with the subway, but you could do it with buses.
Just giving a private sector company a monopoly over transit (like the 407) is ripe for abuse.
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Just a quick response to everyone against TTC drivers in the IT field. Do you worry everyday that you’re going to be spit on or stabbed?? Ride along with us for a whole day, heck, try it for a week and see if you can handle it.
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I agree with Joe. I’ve been in IT with the same company for 14.5 years. I have a DMZ licence. Can I drive a bus? Yes. Can I be trusted with a $100K bus? Yes. Can I agree to be abused, spit on, blamed for fare costs, traffic, weather delays, kicked and punched? No. I’ll stay where I am earning under $50K with no incentives, no bonus or overtime. Most of us can drive a bus, but DO YOU want to be a bus driver??
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I stumbled across these comments while surfing the web and couldn’t help but make a comment.
My father worked for the TTC for 34 years and is now retired, and my brother currently works for the TTC and has been with them for about 20 years.
My brother joined the TTC when he was 21 years old with a wife and a baby girl at home. He had to work weekends and shift work for approximately 8-10 years until he could finally get some half decent shifts and be at home with his family. Here are some more great perks about the job…no breaks during the day to stand around and chit chat with fellow office employees, no bathroom in site, no cafeteria or lunch room, no coffee machine, no radio.
One day on his job about 10 years ago some mental patient got on his streetcar and assaulted him. She physically attacked him while he was driving the streetcar beating him with both her fists. My brother stopped the streetcar and grabbed both her wrists to stop her from hitting him, and she promptly bent down and latched her teeth into his arm. She was arrested and tested positive for AIDS. My brother was obviously tested right away and had to continually go back for testing for about a year after that and was unable to have unprotected sex for a year with his wife. He still bares the teeth mark scars on his forearm 10 years later. At the time he was married with 2 little girls at home.
Just the other day he said a couple of young punks got on and just walked right by him without paying. He asked them for their fares and they just stared at him and started to taunt and tease him. He told me he was very scared and thought he might actually get shot or stabbed. He had to call CIS (ttc’s main computer system) and ask them to send the police.
I also want to respond to the people who said that drivers aren’t skilled/trade workers. Have you ever tried driving a 40 ton streetcar in downtown Toronto on a Friday afternoon. Most dipsh-t drivers don’t realize it takes more than a cars length to stop a 40 ton vehicle. They cut in front of TTC drivers all the time and expect these men and women to stop on a dime (especially in bad weather).
I don’t think any of these people have any idea how hard this job is…i think they should go back to their laptops, cafe latte’s, and crackberry’s and do what they do best….bitch and complain.
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Great thread!
In response to all the haters … If you really feel that working forty + hours a week for the TTC as a driver is so easy, requires so little skill and pays out so much money, much more than IT or other jobs of “greater” importance. Why don’t YOU apply? The TTC is currently hiring and adding to its work force of about 12,000 employees.
Then, maybe if your application is accepted based on your work experience and driving record and you have the patience and means to make it through the 4 months it takes before you do your phone interview acceptably you will be on your way. At that point you will be asked to attend a four hour seminar followed by four hours of pre-screening by way of S.A.T. style tests.
Assuming you pass these tests and are invited to a face to face 1.5 hr interview which you complete satisfactorily, including answering a series of detailed questions, ref checks, criminal checks and successful completion of a thorough medical/physical, you still must pass the training.
The training is approximately one month long and has a 35% failure rate. Pretty high percentage for a job that requires “so little skill”.
If you’ve made it this far which takes about a year in total, you are then put to work on a probationary period of ten months which has its own series of challenges, driving a massive vehicle through insane Toronto traffic being only one of them.
Also you won’t be working 9 to 5, you must work a full year before you get any vacation time, will not have a weekend off for at least 5 years and in many cases will work split shifts making your 8 hour day about 13 hrs or so.
Best of luck!
Phil
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Transit Operator Information Session info?
I just went to the Transit Operator Information session and the suspense is killing me, with regards to if I will get an interview.
Can someone please tell me how critical they are of your answers to there questions, at the end of the information session. Do most get the interview?
I am really anxious to find out, if I get my interview. I feel I am great with interviews. But when it comes down to putting my thoughts on paper I really suck.
Plus you must wait a full year before reapplying and start the whole process all over again.
Peter
Steve: I’m not sure that this is the venue to ask such questions, but I am posting your comment anyhow. Good luck!
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Phil Says: “The training is approximately one month long and has a 35% failure rate. ” Interesting, by my knowledge I know each training cost about $10,000.00 tax payer’s money. Why these good folks (By the way you described, they should be really good driver and good people to be able to pass all these interview and test.) can’t pass them. It is a waste of tax money to have such high failure rate. Or maybe there is explanation to why the training is so difficult to pass even you are a hard working qulified candidate. Please share it with me. Thx.
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Why there is a high training failure rate? What skills / qualifications are required to pass the training?
Steve: I leave this to any who have actually taken it to answer.
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Steve: I’m not quite sure what this has to do with TTC funding, but I will leave this comment where it came in. Please note that if this triggers an avalance of anti-union rhetoric, that will be censored. This particular note strikes a balance and illustrates how inconsistent the treatment of passengers by TTC staff can be, and how it doesn’t take many “bad apples” to tarnish the reputation of the system as a whole.
It’s true. A lot of people don’t know how hard it is. Driving a Blue Night bus has to be one of the hardest jobs out there. As several of you have mentioned, if people think it’s such a plum job, then they should go and do it themselves.
I respect any TTC driver for getting me to my destination safely. Good for anyone who can take the safety of countless people in their hands on a minute-to-minute basis. Driving is stressful. Dealing with masses of people is stressful.
For these reasons, I am ALWAYS polite to TTC employees. And, thankfully, many TTC employees are polite back…
But not all of them. Not even close.
Some TTC employees are, without exaggeration, the rudest people you will ever come across in your life. Just today, I tried to ask a collector at Union Station for a special transfer for the temporary shuttle bus to harbourfront and he treated me like I was some kind of subnormal.
I won’t go into great detail about our exchange, but it involved a combination of him treating me with discourtesy, contempt, and, finally, mockery. (Yup, he actually imitated my confusion to the worker sitting behind him in the booth. I’m not exaggerating.)
To make a long story short, I hadn’t realized you could use a standard Union Station transfer to board a bus from outside Union Station. In trying to obey their rules, while being as POLITE AS POSSIBLE, I was basically humiliated in turn by the Abbott & Costello of the TTC.
This is not a case of “one bad apple spoiling the bunch.” My wife and I experience this kind of behaviour from TTC employees every… single… week. My wife is not a native English speaker, so she gets it worse than I do. (And if you don’t think there’s a huge number of TTC employees who have absolutely no patience with immigrants and/or tourists, then I don’t know what to tell you.)
This is my point: Just as there seems to be a general breakdown in social graces amongst the ridership of the TTC, there is an equally poisonous culture of disrespect amongst TTC workers towards their riders. I don’t know about you, but just as the drunk abusive rider must get old, the “I can pre-empt your rudeness with rudeness of my own” and “I’m going to act like my shit doesn’t stink because I can” attitudes from pricks like that collector can get pretty old, too.
If you disagree, then I guess you a) are a rider on an unusually cheery route; b) are someone who doesn’t notice these things; or c) commute by car. And now I’ve started to break my own rule, gradually losing all desire to be polite to these people who, again, work in a tough industry that should fundamentally demand our respect. It should… but respect, in all its reciprocal glory, can be a funny thing. The cycle continues.
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I’m shocked & surprised at the comments & thoughts of people.
Look up / google TTC violence. Read those stories & then think about driving a TTC route at 3:00 am.
Anyway, I’m in the process of interviews & was looking for a copy of the job shadowing assignment — it’s now only 5 routes not 10. Does anyone have a copy to post?
thanks
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I’ve just started my third year with the TTC. I drive a bus in Malvern(Scarborough). Prior to becoming an operator I was an auto mechanic. Skilled trade? For sure!!! I loved working on cars, and still do. But it was a physically and mentally demanding way to earn a living, and a modest living I might add. Ever done piece work? Not easy. To make 50K as a mechanic, you’re doing really well… Financially! Physically exausted!!I hated my job.
Driving my bus requires more skill, patience, tolerance, morality and definitely much thicker skin than if I were still a mechanic. Guess what though ? I LOVE TO GO TO WORK NOW!!!!!
Are some drivers bitter? Yes. But ask yourself why? You have no idea the types of situations we deal with on a daily basis. From missing persons to mentally ill and sometimes violent passengers. We cannot choose who we pick up! If there is someone at a stop, we pick them up!!!!!! Think about the last time you were driving home at two thirty in the morning on a Saturday night. Sunday morning,and thought “Glad that weirdo at the bus stop’s not riding with me”! Nope he’s not, I pick him up. No matter the circumstances. Does he have a gun?, knife?, miniature schnauzer????? I have no idea. My door still opens. Call me not skilled, overpaid, whatever, 30 minutes on a bus a day does not qualify you to do my job.
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I am a retired TTC operator. The stories related by people about bad experiences with TTC employees and the comments about how difficult some members of the Public can be are merely two sides of the same coin. These things do happen and cannot be denied. In the past I have been guilty of mistreating customers as well as having been the victim of vicious and thoughless customers. I never enjoyed being treated like dirt by other service employees myself. Who would?
It is a natural human urge to retaliate in some manner when we are mistreated. The sad part is that if you respond to poor treatment from others with anger, rage, revenge or brooding resentment you only perpetuate the problem and allow a bitterness to grow inside of you.
You are justified by the circumstances in your negative response but only cause harm to yourself and will subsequently victimise, (usually an undeserving), other person. When you treat others poorly you feed the vicious cycle and keep it alive. Sadly I have only learned this from personal experience.
The only sensible response is of course the most difficult one. We still need to treat and respond to others in a way that we would want to be treated. Whether they have treated us well or poorly is not how we should determine our response.
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Interesting thread.
I start my training in a few weeks and am looking forward to working for the TTC and serving the public.
Already having a lower salary myself, I can’t believe my luck with the raise I’m going to have and how I can better provide for my family.
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Many of the benefits that TTC employees receive in addition to their hourly pay are never seen in the private sector. That had to added to their pay when comparing them to other jobs. Full pension? Only the fattest of unions get that today.
As a job that requires no education and only minimal training, that is certainly excessive.
Steve: No education and minimal training? I can think of several politicians, for starters.
As for pensions, don’t forget that at least half of the cost of the pension plan is paid for by employee contributions. The private sector ran into problems because many companies assumed that future income would pay for future pensions, and topped up plans on a pay-as-you-go basis with worker contributions providing the lion’s share of the revenue.
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I like this thread. I can understand that transit drivers should get a good pay for what they do. Some cities have great workers where they’re kind, can stand up for themselves, and know what they’re doing. But I gotta be frank here, TTC workers, specifically, have HORRIBLE customer service. TTC workers claim that they are assulted in some way everyday, but in reality, it happens because the ttc worker provokes it. I find the workers, especially the booth workers, think they’re so much higher and smarter than customers. I’ve heard ttc workers call a customer an idiot when the customer didn’t count his change right. I remember the other day I was standing at a bus stop, but a couple meters away from it, but still on the designated waiting pavment, then the bus came, I got on, and the bus driver said “next time, stand next to the sign, it makes my job easier”. Holy crap, that’s way too much to ask for. I was standing IN THE DESIGNATED WAITING AREA. Anyway, enough ranting.
TTC workers can be paid $30 an hour or whatever, but please, they should ACT professionally.
Steve: I have a big problem with the generalization going from individuals who, in some cases, really are annoying at the best of times, to all TTC staff. For example, today I was at Bloor Station southbound at about 9:45 am. A train pulled in and opened its doors barely long enough for the passengers on the train to exit let along people on the platform to board. Many got in through a few doors that we all held open, and were admonished for our sins by a gruff voice over the train intercom.
This was totally uncalled for and we left a few hundred people on the platform.
Having said that, this is my first experience with premature door closing in a few months. It happens, and some operators are real assholes about it, but they are a small minority.
By the way, if the real problem was that the train was late (it didn’t seem to be in a gap based on the number of riders), a simple announcement to “mind the doors, there’s a backlog of trains and another one is right behind me” would have done the trick.
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Quote from Average. TTC workers claim that they are assulted in some way everyday, but in reality, it happens because the ttc worker provokes it.”
Really? I was assaulted just because some drug addict got on my bus and wanted to go downtown. I tried to explain that this line did not go downtown, and he hit me numerous times…..huh, never knew telling someone the bus doesn’t go downtown was “asking for it”.
I can tell you many many more stories of UNPROVOKED assaults. Oh and hey how many IT workers have their computers or desks set on FIRE!
Good luck to you all and NO we don’t bring home 75 grand and YES we do work very very hard. Everyday is a stressful day, 8-13 hours per day, five days a week, then we go home to even more stress.
List of things we deal with everyday. Nasty people, disrepect, sucking teeth when I thank them, coughed on, sneezed on, spat on, smells that offend, vomit on Friday and Saturday Nights, traffic, accidents, drunks, drug addicts, mentally ill, confused people, seniors that need help, kids that steal transfers or don’t want to pay. NUMEROUS people who only throw a dime in the fare box in hopes we won’t notice, yesterdays transfers, fake passes, people with dogs who want to put them on the seats then get all angry when you tell them its not allowed. Crying, screaming babies, yelling teenagers, swearing, bad music, numerous ringing cell phones. Bad drivers who cut us off, thinking we can stop our full bus on a dime, not yeilding to the bus even though its now the LAW, taxis who try to bully us or park at the bus stop. Moving a very large vehicule down a very narrow street with parked cars and the street polls located at the very curb line, all the while I am driving, THIS is going on and I need to get you to your destination through all this, SAFELY.
So next time how about a simple THANK YOU, I arrived alive.
Signed
Dee the Bus Driver
Was a Certified Acountant
Now I love my job, no more cubicles and coffee……..
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Oh an as for waiting for a bus, have you ever thought, hey maybe it was an accident that held up the bus, or maybe the bus before broke down, or hey maybe the driver was assaulted, or hey maybe something stressful happened to cause this gap? So you really think that we are late on purpose? Do you really think its our lifes goal to not be on time and make you angry so you can be nasty to us?
What exactly would you like us to do about traffic, accidents, construction, broke down busses and the like?
Magically make it go away? Wave our TTC wand and open up the roads like Moses parting the Red Sea?
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I do feel very sorry for bus operators that are assaulted. However, they should be going after the government, the TTC and their union for better working conditions. Instead, the union seems to push that poor working conditions should be put up with by drivers in exchage for higher wages and better benefits. Why don’t TTC employees seriously demand and even strike for working conditions?
I was just in London, UK last month and had the opportunity to ride their new buses. The driver is in a bulletproof glass protected area and does not need to extract fares from passengers, as this can be cheaply, easily and efficiently done by a machine. It is absolutely ridiculous that we do not do this on our buses and streetcars. The driver should be left to concentrate on driving the bus and be removed from confrontations with beligerent people about fares. The driver should be in a protected area so that a crazy person cannot assault him, a beneficial situation for the driver’s own safety as well as passengers that are in jeopardy by an assault that happens while the bus is moving.
Especially if they are just phased into new vehicles I can’t see how a glass enclosure would add all that much cost to an entire bus. The fare collection machine should be a simple transponder type that is loaded up at stations, online, automatically or by telephone. There can still be a fare box on the bus while the card is rolled out and it would be on the honour system to deposit you fare. The honour system is already used by the TTC on proof of payment routes, and is used in other places like Calgary Transit, Vancouver SkyTrain and VIVA buses in York Region.
Some might say that fare dodging could increase, but again the bus driver is not in the position to extract fares from beligerent passengers that wish to break the law. The driver is not qualified or trained (nor should he be) to arrest people or forcibly eject them from vehicles. This is the job of the police. I don’t think it is worth a few extra fares for TTC drivers to be shot in the face. It is also not worth it to the taxpayer to pay the unfortunate drivers danger pay and dissability benefits for something that shouldn’t be allowed to happen in the first place.
We also have to realize that Toronto is a much bigger city and is not as safe as it was 50 years ago. Whether we think it is “nice” or not to have protective glass in transit vehicles and taxi cabs, it is necessary. Sooner or later it will be just like London, New York, Chicago and countless other places.
In addition to the direct benefit to transit employees, better working conditions could help the taxpayer and transit rider financially as well, as new drivers could be attracted while providing industry standard wages and benefits.
Steve: The new streetcars (both for the existing system and for Transit City) have the operators in an enclosed cab, and all fare transactions will be handled by smart cards. The TTC has yet to address the staffing required for roving fare inspectors.
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I think I might have gone a bit off topic here, but the driver safety issue is one that keeps coming up.
I do believe that the wage and benefits to TTC operators are too high for what their job actually is, but not so if their job is as dangerous as they say it is. The “danger factor” can be fixed as it is actually quite easy to fix, if I can even make up a completely reasonable solution on the fly!
At over 70% of operating budget and well above industry standard for vehicle drivers and money collectors, wages should be dealt with. A wage freeze is absolutely necessary in order to protect transit riders from further fare increases, but is probably not possible until at least the working conditions issue is properly solved.
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Enough with the IT worker and TTC operator comparison…
How about a TTC operator’s salary compared to a police officer?
Both are public employees
Both jobs are unionized
Both can work long hours
AND they both make roughly the same.
That’s not right. Cops get spit on, and verbally abused (not to mention shot at) all the time, but I would say their jobs are more stressful and dangerous than a TTC operator’s.
If TTC service didn’t suck as much as it does, then maybe there would be more riders and more money to cover operating costs.
Nobody likes crap service, which is why I bet that the employees themselves drive to work because even they can’t stand how slow and congested the system is. It’s not fun being wedged between other cranky riders pissed off at how packed the cars are and how long it’s taking them to get to/from work – and they know that!
I used to ride the TTC, but I decided a long time ago to buy a car because it allowed me to regain 3 hours a day in travel time. I could either work or play longer instead of wait through unreliable TTC schedules.
I will never “ride the rocket” ever again. Root canals are more pleasant.
Steve: Wage information can be found in the ATU Collective Agreement and on the Toronto Police Services website. The “Sunshine List” of public sector salaries can be found in the Ministry of Finance site.
The hourly rate for an Operator at top pay is $28.20. For a base work year of 251 8-hour days (2,008 hours), this works out to $56,625.60. The rate for a First Class Constable is $78,081. Operator shifts are often longer than 8 hours, and they are paid accordingly, but for the purpose of comparison we need to use the base figures.
Both positions offer substantial opportunities for overtime. If you look at the “Sunshine List” under “City of Toronto”, you will find many, many more constables from the Police Service than you will Operators and Station Collectors.
Your comparison of pay for the two positions is simply wrong. Period. I will generously assume you are misinformed by some politician or columnist rather than seeking to mislead my readers.
Yes, there are issues with service. One of the biggest problems is that politicians don’t want to more tightly regulate and enforce traffic, and a lot of congestion that plagues transit comes from coddling car drivers who want to be able to stop and park anywhere, any time. Meanwhile the police are busy with “real crime” and only sporadically enforce traffic bylaws. Tow-away provisions in Ontario, unlike some other provinces, require authorization by a Constable. My attitude to illegally parked and stopped cars, taxis, delivery vans, tour buses, whatever, is to ruthlessly tow them away. It’s like grafitti. Nail the first one and you won’t have to worry about the second and third.
As for root canals, I have not had that pleasure and cannot comment on the relative painfulness of riding the rocket, something I do many times every day.
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Ridiculous. I notice that 95% of people defending TTC workers are TTC workers themselves. What a joke. Stop calling yourself skilled workers.
Don’t give me that stuff about not having a weekend off for fives years etc. I can tell you that in my 5 years at University of Toronto (Masters of Applied Science included) I worked on average of 80 hours a week, every single week without fail. The fact that I will be making the same amount of money as a TTC operator (after 5 years of investment in school and 5 years of 16 hour days without pay) is just ridiculous. Seriously, what is the point of an education?
I have to admit though, 90% of operators seem courteous and are generally polite. However, the people who sit in the ticket booths – HOLLLYYY *!@# 95% of them are UNBELIEVABLY RUDE. Like literally the rudest people I have ever met in my life are TTC ticket operators (or whatever you call them). I do not know how to properly describe my experience with words. Just last week, I was POLITELY asking an operator if I can pay for Metropass with Visa, the woman let out a HUGE sigh, shook her head like 10 times, then pointed to a hand written sign that says cash only then waved me off. Wow? What did I do to you?
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@kyo:
A set amount of education does not entitle you to a set amount of salary. Education is about expanding your mind first. If you aren’t happy with your present compensation, perhaps you should seek a new employer. With more work experience under your belt, you can ask for that extra 10k or howevermuch you are underpaid by.
I’ve never worked in the public sector.
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