The TTC has added a section for streetcars to its list of speed zone restrictions. As of February 17, TTC claims that there are only five of them.
| Location | Affected Routes (per TTC) |
|---|---|
| Dundas St. at the DVP Bridge | 505 |
| Bathurst St. at Bridgeman Ave. (*) | 511 |
| King & Church Intersection | 503/303, 504/304 |
| Queen St. E. & Degrassi St. (*) | 501/301 |
| Queens Quay from York to the Harbourfront Tunnel (*) | 509 |
This table is inaccurate on so many counts it is embarrassing.
- Bridgman (the correct spelling) actually refers to the underpass north of Dupont Street at the CPR. This is non-revenue trackage used primarily by 512 St. Clair cars entering and leaving service. The 511 Bathurst car does not run this far north.
- King & Church also hosts the 508 Lake Shore car and 501 Queen cars when they cannot divert via Richmond/Adelaide.
- Queen & De Grassi (the correct spelling) is near an overpass on the GO Lake Shore East corridor. The 503/303 services also operate here, not to mention carhouse trips to Leslie Barns for other routes.
- Queens Quay is also used by 510/310 Spadina when the route operates with streetcars.
After repair work on Dundas Street, the slow order was lifted but has mysteriously returned.
Updated Feb. 17/25 at 6:20pm: I have been advised by a reader that the Dundas slow order is due to noise complaints from a neighbouring resident, not due to track conditions, and that the complaint came via the local Councillor. Streetcars have operated here for over a century. If there is are issues with rough track or broken joints causing new noise, then fix them.
This may seem as if I’m quibbling, but there is a much longer list of permanent speed restrictions in effect:
- All facing point switches have a mandatory stop to check their setting.
- All special work (switches, crossings) are operated at low speed until the rear of the car clears the junction.
- All underpasses are operated at low speed. This is a holdover from trolley pole operation lest a dewirement damage the car and/or overhead.
- In theory, streetcars are not supposed to pass at junctions lest one of them derail and strike the other. In practice only junior operators following all of the rules observe this.
- Where reserved lanes cross roads such as on The Queensway, streetcars are to operate at low speed lest an auto make a left turn in front of them.
These practices have accumulated over time in the name of safety, a TTC watchword that in at least some cases is a cover for lack of maintenance.
Problems with misbehaving electric switches go back three decades to controllers installed to deal with streetcars of different lengths (CLRVs and ALRVs). These were always problematic, and the TTC is only now working through their replacement. That capital project has been on the books for years.
The track at Church & King is long overdue for replacement and this is finally scheduled for 2025. There have been enough intersections with problematic trackwork that a blanket slow order is easier to implement than an ever-changing site-specific list. This affects streetcar service everywhere because the TTC network has so many crossings.
Some errors in the TTC’s list are trivial, but they show that whoever built it does not know the system. The obvious concern is the accuracy of other defect lists for TTC infrastructure and vehicles. The SRT derailment and various subway incidents revealed issues with rapid transit inspection and maintenance. Why can the TTC not accurately report the condition of their own system? They have a substantial “Enterprise Asset Management System”, but this is only as good as the information fed to it.
The City and TTC seek a new CEO for our transit system. One early job for the “lucky” candidate will be to look under a lot of rocks to see just what the state of the system is, and how much has been missed or hidden from sight.
Steve Munro 
They are hiding the true reason for the Dundas slow zone from you.
Steve: See my update to the article.
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Steve said:
This reminds me of the (apparently true) story of the British Army who, in the 1960s, were evaluating the number of people needed on a gun battery and there seemed to be two who had no function. It turned out that they had been required when the guns were pulled by horses – they held the horses’ heads when the guns were fired to prevent them bolting!
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My experience with projects like the “Enterprise Asset Management System” is that some manager got a big bonus for implementing it to Solve A Problem and that it really doesn’t work as intended. This is usually because it was a top-down solution from Managers who are, as we know, Masters of Business Administration, and not bottom-up from the people doing and supervising the actual work. Those latter people don’t count because, after all, they are not Masters of Business Administration and can’t possibly see the Big Picture.
Steve: “Enterprise” systems can become out of control IT projects where the actual implementation in the field creates a substantial amount of new work, not to mention an incentive to do that work quickly and incompletely. I tend to be very suspicious of advocates for such systems, almost as much as anyone who promotes “Innovation” as a solution to all that ails us. The BS is usually thick on the ground.
From recent investigations of track issues on the SRT and subway, we know that the quality of information is poor, in part because of inadequate inspection. An IT system will not correct shortcomings in basic procedure and might, in fact, obscure problems by presenting a too-rosy view of the world if staff who must generate input feel that it’s a waste of time.
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Maybe they’re secretly planning to re-extend the 511 up to St. Clair, like I once asked you about doing and which you shut down. Like I’ll ever let a “no” stop me from a supposedly bad idea.
On an unrelated note, I want to ask: When the Flexities were being ordered, why weren’t they ordered to replace the A/CLRVs on a 1-to-1 basis, i.e. to increase capacity while maintaining headways, etc.? Why replace vehicles to meet the current demand instead of replacing them with the aim of higher capacity? (I think I misworded that, but the idea is there.)
Steve: The old fleet was 52 ALRVs plus 196 CLRVs. If we count the ALRVs as 1.5, that would be 78+196 = 274 CLRV equivalents. The Flexity order was for 204, but that assumed some service expansion. Definitely existing capacity was to be maintained.
And, no, the 511 isn’t going to St. Clair.
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This city is a joke. I wonder if this was Fletcher’s work again or her counterpart on the other side of the river.
There was a collision last week where the motorists turned into the path of an approaching bus but I’ve yet to hear of new blanket speed restrictions from the “safety” hawks at the TTC. That’s rather worrying because there are a lot more buses in the city and a lot more locations where cars can turn in front of them compared to streetcars.
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Didn’t they already do King and Church?!? I swear we had that shutdown already last summer … ow the summer before that??
Steve: Those were patch jobs on an intersection already in bad repair.
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How is it that the Queen Street Bridge over the Don River/DVP not listed here?
This list of streetcar speed zones is a complete farce.
Steve: Actually there is no slow order on the bridge as they fixed the eastern expansion joint in recent repairs. However, ops are so used to driving slowly here that they do it from habit. Also, there is of course a slow zone at the King/Queen switch on the west end of the bridge.
Yes, it is clear that the TTC has no idea of what is happening on its system.
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Regarding the King/Church replacement (and presumed closure), how what is the length of trackage now on Richmond & Adelaide (it is my understanding that it is only from Church to York, though Adelaide also goes to Spadina for Charlotte loop. It would make sense (though cost money) to extend Richmond to Spadina as well… Are all turns possible onto/off of York from Richmond & Adelaide?
Steve: Extending Richmond Street track to Spadina is not going to happen between now and May.
The intersection at Adelaide & York includes north to east, south to east and east to north turns. The southbound track on York ends at Adelaide.
The intersection at Richmond & York includes only a west to north curve.
Track on Adelaide from Spadina eastward existed historically for the past century. It has been rebuilt including a switch at Charlotte & Adelaide. The track has already been used on several occasions for emergency diversions.
At Church, there are turns both ways into Richmond westbound and out of Adelaide eastbound.
You might want to have a look at Google Street View to see what is there.
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The TTC should learn from Byford’s “Save Safe Seconds” campaign at the MTA and start looking for where streetcars can be sped up now. Removing blanket restrictions would be a good starting point.
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“All facing point switches have a mandatory stop to check their setting.”
Is this the reason for the stop and painfully slow progress of the 512 just east of Oakwood?
Steve: Yes, but for the full experience, ride a 501 Queen car west from Roncesvalles where there are FIVE facing point switches before you get past Sunnyside Loop.
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Hi Steve,
Has Metrolinx/TTC released any information on how many of these rules will be in place on Lines 5 and 6, particularly the surface portions? I would hope that when it comes to these rapid transit lines they would not be in place, but I wouldn’t put it past them.
Steve: I have not heard anything about such rules, but do know that some of the transit priority originally designed for the lines was axed thanks to City Transportation Services.
If any operators who have been doing training on these lines knows what’s up, please drop me a line, not for attribution.
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I have seen testing trains on Eglinton running at speed over crossover switches.
They do tend to travel slowly through intersections, although I can’t tell whether that is due to “safety rules” or whether it’s just training operators not wanting to enter the far-side platforms too quickly. (Typically when I see the test trains they are at an intersection with a far-side stop.)
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There is a crew of at least eight working on the tracks at the east end of the Dundas bridge over the Don/DVP. Quite a few metres of concrete have been removed from around the tracks. So there’s something to be fixed there.
At least that explains why a 505 bus is running around the neighbourhood.
Steve: Yes, clearly they didn’t fix whatever is wrong there the first time, or there’s another problem. I must ride by on a bus to see what they’re working on. Likely an expansion joint, but I will check.
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According to Transit Toronto, they’re “replacing and repairing the switch and expansion joints”. They’re aren’t any switches at the bridge, though…
Steve: The TTC notice makes no mention of switch repairs, nor of an expansion joint. It will be interesting to see if the slow order is lifted once repairs are complete.
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