The intersection of Adelaide & York is taking shape with special work installation for the 501 Queen Ontario Line diversion.
Curves have been installed:
- South to east for the 501 diversion.
- North to east.
- East to north.
Of these three, the north to east is net new compared with the track layout half a century ago as shown by a map drawn by John F. Bromley and hosted on the Transit Toronto website.
Here are my photos of the work in progress on November 10, 2023. (Yes, dear readers, I made a point of visiting when the sun was aligned with the downtown office canyons.)
Still to come is the installation of tangent track southbound from Queen to Adelaide, and the provision of an east to south curve at York and Queen. York Street will become two-way from Queen to Adelaide after its long era of one-way northbound operation implemented when the Gardiner Expressway opened.
Steve Munro 
How long does concrete need to cure in order to reach 90% strength?
In average conditions, concrete takes 24 to 48 hours to harden enough to walk on, one week to support the weight of vehicles, and 28 days to fully cure. This assumes that the concrete has a water-cement ratio of 0.5, and it’s a nice 21°C day with 50% relative humidity.
The colder it gets, the longer your concrete takes to set. An industry rule of thumb says that every 10°C drop in concrete temperature will double the set time. So, a pour that sets in six hours at 20°C will take 12 hours at 10°C and 24 hours at -1°C.
As it gets colder, it will take longer to set.
Steve: And your point is? Traffic will not be driving on this track for some time. Meanwhile, temperatures for the coming week are forecast to range from freezing to 12C.
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I hope that they seriously consider continuing the southbound track down York from Adelaide to King and install an east-north curve on King when they re-do the track on King – 2026 or 2026? This would surely give much more flexibility for diversions?
Steve: I could be catty and observe that any moment now the Ontario Line fans will tell us that the OL will completely replace the streetcar network and all that track won’t be needed.
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We all know the OL is not real and will never be completed. It’s like unicorns or an honest Doug Ford or sober Rob Ford rip.
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Since you have no pictures of the Richmond & York intersection, was there any visual indication of tangent track being installed from wb Richmond to southbound York?
Steve: Work on the track at Richmond has not started yet. When it does, there will only be a through southbound track, I believe, with no west to south curve added. Note that “tangent” refers to straight track and what you describe is by definition not straight, hence not tangent.
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I don’t know about the entire network but it certainly could have replaced the King line had it run from King East out to the vicinity of King West at Liberty Village but that wouldn’t have helped Ford’s benefactors with their development plans.
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I’d rather have this and Transit City instead of the Ontario Line, but of course, all that the Ford brothers want is the Ontario Line.
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Nothing like the current conception of the Ontario Line could replace the King car, even were it routed along King.
The station spacing, although fairly close in the downtown section, isn’t close enough to deal with the density. And the deep tunnel concept would make station access awkward. It would be marginally worthwhile to go one or two stops, compared to hopping on a streetcar (should a streetcar actually be in sight).
You also have the problem of figuring out how to run service that fits the demand. Assuming King car ridership comes back (and certainly the density is going up) you have to figure out how to deal with the King car crowds, while also being an east side relief line. Since the relief concept is all about taking riders from the northeast to downtown and back, how do you deal with the local King car riders?
Steve: Back in the 1960s, when the Bloor subway opened, the TTC assumed that the King car ridership would all divert to the new subway, especially with direct trains to downtown, and they cut the King streetcar service by over 50%. That was a disaster as they quickly found out what anyone could tell them, that the riders do not originate primarily at the connecting subway stations, but along the route. Much of the deleted service was restored very quickly.
The same applies to the Ontario Line. When transfer times are factored in along with access distances and depths at OL stations downtown, someone who is already on a streetcar will be better off riding on the surface to their destination except for very specific origin-destination pairs.
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I have just found an interesting website on the Montréal Métro.
It states that the deepest station in that system is Charlevoix, at just about 30m underground for the deeper of the platforms (it is, for interesting reasons, a stacked station).
According to this very blog, Ontario line stations downtown are going to typically be that deep, if not deeper:
I rode the Métro extensively this past April. I never used Charlevoix. However, going down, and especially up, from the somewhat shallower stations I used (Papineu, Mont-Royal, Jean-Talon, etc.) got old pretty quickly. It was to the point that I considered walking instead of taking a one- or two-station ride.
The only way the Ontario line can replace the King car is through a fervent effort by Metrolinx to get people to exercise more. So scrap the King car, take a walk instead! Or, I suppose, get your exercise going up or down the equivalent of roughly eight to ten storeys of stairs.
Steve: It was always fascinating listening to Metrolinx boffins extolling the virtues of convenient across-the-platform transfer connections between GO and the OL at Exhibition and East Harbour stations, designs that had to be abandoned due to cost, while simultaneously designing stations where OL-to-TTC transfers would be extremely time consuming due to station depth. Metrolinx picks it arguments to suit the situation.
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Steve, could you tell us which curves will be at Adelaide and York?
Forty-some years ago, I worked in an office overlooking that stetch of York. One day the construction crews across the street raised some material up through the streetcar wire. That made some interesting sparks and the images on our computer screens bounced a bit. (The wire end was long enough to reach the street.)
Steve: It’s in the article, right at the top.
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Would the first opportunity to try to ride a streetcar along Adelaide from Spadina to Church be the next edition of TIFF? Presumably they would divert eastbound King cars along that route.
Steve: That’s the likely diversion assuming they maintain a through route rather than splitting it.
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Sorry, Steve. I thought those were new curves, not the only ones.
Steve: Aha! I see the confusion. Not to worry.
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Steve, regarding timing, the TTC website is a bit confusing:
Fall 2024 begins in September of 2024, long after “Spring 2024” when they’ll “complete any remaining track renewal work”. Is this a mistake or will this detour construction really take until end of 2024 before going live?
Steve: There is similar info on the Metrolinx Ontario Line site. The target date for service over the new track was supposed to be May 2024, but Metrolinx has an unerring ability to run late. I suspect some of the work that will drag on, however, is on completion of the streetscape changes, but we will see.
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An Ontario line along King likely would have had stations closer to 25m depth as opposed to the 35m depth along Queen and no trees to worry about as at Osgoode and Moss Park. Really only the interchange stations would have been at a greater depth. It’s hardly an insurmountable problem. Some parts of line 2 are at almost 20m below grade.
The city staffers at the RLS sessions made up a lot of crap to support their decisions and one of their “facts” was cheaper and shallower stations along Queen because the bedrock they were going to tunnel through was closer to the surface there.
Well wouldn’t you know it? The difference in depth between the Parliament station at King compared to the stations on Queen is roughly 10m. Bedrock elevation happens to be the same between the two streets but 10m happens to be the difference in elevation between King and Queen…
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I’m glad that there are a few others out there pretty dark about the OL and its relative worth ie. it’s more for private benefit than public benefit, or the costs to the public are/will be much greater than what’s told/sold. Including a Fail to get further west through the pinch point at base of High Park to truly make an option to the Gardiner/Lakeshore to start tolling that road. Boondougles!
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I see the crayons are out in force here. L. Wall would like to have Ontario Line replace the King streetcar but end it at Liberty Village, so that riders from Parkdale can have a transfer to get to downtown. While Hamish would like Ontario Line to go to Mimico, where presumably drivers on the Gardiner driving in from Oakville and beyond will have their cars do a vanishing trick and get on the train. I guess I shouldn’t mention that we already have a four-track rail line going through that pinch point at the base of High Park but for the past several decades we’ve failed to run frequent urban service on it, while faffing around with a dozen subway schemes…
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West to north, not east to north.
Steve: The east to north refers to the direction of travel, not to the quadrants linked. An eastbound car turns north, hence east to north.
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I just thought to tell you what I saw this past Tuesday Nov. 14th. Coming into Toronto from Caledon where there is no transit any more, I drove north on Spadina and turned right on Adelaide going east. I saw both the new track AND overhead installed, though the overhead ended after a couple of blocks. The track ended before University, where I was compelled to turn as Adelaide was blocked on the east side. Northbound University is a mess, a single lane jogs sharply at Queen to the left side of the boulevard. Overall, driving downtown is terrible – Yonge St. from the lake up to Carlton, Sherbourne blocked at Lakeshore. Probably lots more construction which I have not seen.
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Steve, you mentioned an east to south curve at York and Queen. Do you know if there will also be a west to south curve added at that intersection?
Steve: Plans I have seen so far only include the east-to-south curve which can be added without rebuilding the rest of the intersection.
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From City:
Construction Update #15
Steve: I am trying to imagine what this will do to the already paralyzed transit service on King.
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Though Councillor Moise is a TTC Board Member, he is being FAR too optimistic in his recent interview with Bridge News!
Not only is the track on York and at Queen not finished (or really started by Metrolinx), the TTC has not yet installed any overhead between Charlotte and Victoria.
Steve: The Adelaide track might be finished by year end, but the diversion won’t start until May, I believe. The Councillor has been badly briefed, as they say in political ircles.
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