6 thoughts on “Metrolinx Scarborough Subway Extension Info Session”

1. I hope to see the province’s sudden love of above-grade transit like the Vancouver Skytrain taken into account with this project!

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2. It’s funny, or maybe sad is the better word, but I recall going to a TTC info session at the Scarborough Civic Centre about 15 years ago where they were discussing upgrading the SRT to Mark II trains (including the rebuilding of Kennedy Station and the underpass between Ellesmere and Midland). If memory serves, you were there too, Steve. Anyway, here we are, well over a decade later, and I’m still riding the same Mark I SRT trains, and I’ll probably still be riding them ten years from now, assuming they last that long.

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3. My recollection is that in the very early stages of this project there was a plan to build in a northeasterly direction from Kennedy Station, up the former CNR/hydro right-of-way, to Ellesmere and McCowan, then double back to the Scarborough Town Centre.

   In some ways this would have seemed more sensible than the selected route, as it would have directly served residential neighbourhoods, crossing them at an angle. However, I believe it was not given further consideration due to objections from residents whose back yards abutted the right-of-way. At that time, of course, Scarborough Council would have gone ballistic at the idea of locating it on city streets.

   In my view, assuming it were possible to possible to drop the subway extension plan due to cost, the RT could be replaced by an LRT line proceeding east on Eglinton to Midland, north to Ellesmere, east to Brimley, then into the STC. It might have to be on an elevated structure to Midland, to avoid possible interference with an eastward extension of the Crosstown LRT.

   Steve: Yes, there was strong objection to the proposed LRT through back yards as it would have run quite close to houses. As for the subway plan, that horse left the barn back in Rob Ford’s days.

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4. Hello Steve,

   If they stuck to the original plan altered by Rob Ford, the line would of been merged with the Eglinton LRT through to Weston all underground through east Scarborough on Eglinton. They could have dropped using LRT trams and upgraded to the Mark III trains throughout hence relieving the transfer at Kennedy as anyone headed downtown would not get off at Kennedy but Eglinton/Yonge or Allen/Eglinton, the residents of East York and western Scarborough would have a seat on the Bloor line. It did eat up most of the budget at the time with only about 700 million left for Finch West. The TTC threw cold water on that by separating it at Kennedy resulting in endless arguments to this day about the replacement of the SRT.

   With the Ontario line now being proposed it would be more feasible to have done that instead. There wouldn’t have been a lawsuit against Bombardier for LRT delays plus the reliability of the Mark III’s are quite excellent.

   The Ontario line could be built with Mark III’s too.

   A few years ago the SRT was rated as the most economical and reliable TTC lines running in the 6. Vancouver is doing well with the Mark III.

   You could run two routes if the Ontario line was Mark III as with Eglinton, one route from STC to Ontario place via DON Mills/Eglinton and one from STC through Eglinton to the airport. The money used for UPX would have gone towards extending Eglinton to the airport. Phase 2 would run from Ontario Place under Dufferin to Eglinton. Finish the Sheppard east subway to STC using some cut and cover construction bringing down the cost of this extension. Finch west to the airport and Sheppard west to Allen then interlining to Finch West station terminating at the third rail on Finch west, voila!! a good grid of rapid transit covering the 6.

   As for Malvern, Kennedy, via UofT Scarborough, as per the original plan, then Malvern and back to STC via Centenial College campus.

   Steve: My oh my, you really have got a big box of crayons to draw that transit fantasy map.

   First off, Bombardier tried to get the Eglinton line converted to SkyTrain technology as an untendered “extension” of the SRT. They were warned off by Dalton McGuinty.

   You conveniently neglect the fact that Mark IIIs require complete grade separation and the infrastructure cost for building Eglinton that way (let alone the rest of your network) would be enormous compared to LRT.

   The whole point of Transit City was go get a network across the suburbs without spending a small fortune. It is ironic that the most expensive chunk, the central tunnel on Eglinton, was the main piece to survive Ford’s cuts, and now of course the whole “oh dear why didn’t we just build a subway” chorus is upon us. We would have also avoided the ruinous cost of the Scarbrough subway extension also, but that ship sailed long ago and I am not going to re-argue the case. Similarly I think your whole idea of a Mark III network blanketing the system is similarly beyond discussion.

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5. I wonder if some of the materials presented at these Open House ‘consults’ will include a now-older Business Case Analysis? There was one that apparently didn’t see this extension as a ‘worthwhile expenditure’, almost like the initial view of the Spadina/Sorbara subway extension. Sic trans*it, uncem gloria mundes as it were…

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6. Well, the newest business case analysis was mysteriously released on a Friday afternoon where it can be easily buried in the news. And it outright says that the Scarborough subway and the Eglinton West subway are complete wastes of money, but Metrolinx says they don’t care and are going to build them anyway. With that sort of attitude, I’m not sure why they’re even bothering with information sessions. They obviously don’t care what anyone thinks about anything.

   Now I’m really curious to see the business case analysis for the Hamilton LRT. The Conservatives cancelled it because they claimed it wasn’t a good investment, but I wonder whether the business case analysis shows that it would have actually been a better investment than this Eglinton West subway going through Doug Ford’s riding.

   Steve: My review of the SSE Business Case will go up at 7 am February 29.

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