Updated October 4:
Thanks to Harold McMann for the following photos of 4400 arriving at Hillcrest.
A previous “first car” arrives at Hillcrest:
Updated September 28:
Thanks to Mike Filey for this photo of 4400.
Original Post of September 26
The Junctioneer reports that the first of the prototype low floor LRVs is in CPR Lambton Yard. The car is expected to move to Hillcrest in the early hours of Saturday, September 29.
A media event will be scheduled for October.
Thanks to all who forwarded me this link.
See also the Torontoist and Randy Risling on Twitter. Note that the car has both a trolley pole and a pantograph.
Steve Munro 
Sigh… Too late for my fraudulent streetcar photos. Looks great though!
Was the testing of the CLRV prototype extensively covered with much fanfare? I think I heard a TTC staff say that they prefer not to get too much attention, since there still remains a possibility of something going wrong.
Steve: The TTC has not yet announced a media event, but if the new subway trains were any indication, there will be publicity.
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WAHOO, FINALLY!1!!1!!111!!!
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Any idea on the time frame of these entering service and which lines?
Steve: The TTC (quoted on Torontoist) is now saying 2014 on Spadina. The CEO’s report (quoted in the next comment) says that the production vehicles will begin delivery in fall 2013.
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This is in the CEO’s report to the Commission’s meeting this week:
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Considering the views our mayor has on streetcars, it wouldn’t surprise me if the media event surrounding the delivery of 4400 is kept to a minimum while probably using some excuse about “saving taxpayer dollars” to justify the lack of publicity.
I’m still hopeful that the TTC will try to conduct some test runs with riders next summer so that they can get some customer input before they start delivering the production cars.
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Steve, be honest.. does the kid in you get all excited to see a brand new streetcar being hauled into town?
I noticed the inclusion of a pantograph as well as the trolley pole – is this a matter of “we’ll see which is best during testing” or will the entire legacy system be “pan friendly” by the time all the new cars arrive.
Steve: Conversion of the overhead to be pan friendly is in progress although right now it’s a bit scattershot depending on where there is a shutdown allowing work on various lines. In some places, conversion work appears to have been started but they have missed bits that still hang foul, notably old style hangars and loose spans that allow support hardware to droop.
As for the kid in me, I remember seeing “new” second hand PCCs sitting behind Hillcrest. The newer generations of cars don’t have quite the same feel, but they’re better than buses.
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I see the new streetcars are going the same way as the buses with the black doors. A few pennies saved. I think it looks terrible though.
Steve: One change we managed to get was that the black line above the windows and doors is continuous. In the original design, it jutted up at the doors giving a “gap tooth” effect.
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I assume St. Clair is Pan-ready, and much of the initial testing will occur here, before testing the rest of the system.
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Do you know how many of the components in the legacy 4400 will also appear in the Metrolinx light rail vehicles? Probably the gearing (and power collectors) and motors will be different, but I can see most of the parts being interchangeable.
Steve: I believe they will be fairly compatible, although as you say with the Metrolinx cars being 750v, the electrical systems will have some differences.
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Steve, since you were in on these discussions, do you know the reason behind the TTC going with unpainted doors in the new rolling stock? Was there a maintenance headache associated with having door panels painted to match the rest of the colour scheme?
I hated the look when it started showing up on the buses a few years ago and now the new streetcars. I think it looks terribly cheap.
Steve: The problem is that they wanted each separate piece of the vehicle’s skin to have one colour as much as possible. This makes it simpler for repairs as a matching paint job isn’t required, simply a panel of the appropriate colour for whatever is being replaced.
Also, from a “readability” point of view, if you’re going to have all door loading, the doors should stand out from the rest of the vehicle so that it’s obvious where they are. I’m not sure that’s ideal as a piece of attractive design, but we got what we could out of them (and that wasn’t much because we came into the process so late).
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Is it the intention to deliver all new cars to Hillcrest? If so, it would make sense to restore the siding off the CPR North Toronto Subdivision into Hillcrest. If not, where will the production cars be delivered?
I think it is ridiculous how long it is taking to get these cars built and in service. Bombardier makes all kinds of streetcars, LRT’s etc. for Europe and elsewhere. Why can they not make something in Canada that works? Do automakers go through this length of time?
Steve: I have heard that the siding at Hillcrest is being restored, but have not yet confirmed this. It is ironic that the delivery siding at Greenwood is being removed to make room for more yard storage thereby preventing direct delivery of subway cars by rail.
The delay is a direct result of the Ford era when the future of this contract was in doubt, and work at Thunder Bay stopped. Even so, yes, it is taking a long time.
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Was just at Lambton Yard around 6:30 pm and watched crews load the LRV onto a tractor-trailer. Wondering if maybe they’ll move it to hillcrest before Saturday. It’s a beautiful vehicle. I dont mind the black doors, at least they’re glossy, not like the matte black doors on some of the new buses.
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Posters up at Hillcrest complex state that a “fiberglass mock-up” will be arriving on site next week. 4401 will arrive at Hillcrest for line testing by the end of November.
There is a rail connection to Hillcrest being installed during this week.
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Steve said:
To be fair, the Rockets haven’t been certified for the viaduct yet. So there is a tiny amount of reason behind that madness.
What I find interesting is that they never looked into building a delivery spur as part of the construction at Sheppard West station.
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Question about the Greenwood delivery siding: I believe it does/used to feature gauntlet track. I have a 60s aerial photo of the yard, and it looks as if a subway could cross over to the delivery track and then carry on around parallel to the actual runaround track and back into the rest of the network near the southeast corner of the yard. Of course what is really shown must be gauntlet track due to the gauge difference (note: no intent to re-open that discussion here!).
More recently, it appears most of the gauntlet track has been removed. I have zoomed-in camera footage taken over the fence that fairly clearly shows the fact that the “crossover” track I refer to doesn’t actually connect to the delivery track but instead forms a gauntlet.
So, if they want more storage space, can’t they just restore the rest of the gauntlet track? Then to take delivery of new cars, make sure that storage track is empty for the day and carry on as before.
Also, related question, will new subway cars still make most of the journey by train and transfer to truck relatively nearby, or just go on a truck the entire distance?
Steve: They are coming into Wilson by truck as far as I know.
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I understand the economics of simplifying the colours required per piece, but the end product really isn’t as good as it could have been as a result. Better than before but, in my view, fairly dull and heavy looking.
I think that they could have rationalized a different balance of red, white, and black if the vehicle’s underlying window frames were painted white instead of black. But that isn’t a common practice amongst most transit operators.
The front end of the vehicle isn’t as well executed as it could be either, particularly the roof line, and that has an impact on the paint scheme as well. If they didn’t want the destination sign to jut out like it does on the CLRVs and ALRVs, fine, but putting it behind a curved windshield is questionable in my view. Above the windshield where “4400” is applied makes more sense to me, perhaps done similarly to the Orion VII Next Generation buses. Likely could have made the destination sign even larger, for the benefit of customers, if it was done that way.
And, seriously, regardless of the rationale (probably advertising-related), the TTC decals shouldn’t be above the windows. Especially when the fleet number decals are below the windows. It’s too high up and just looks sloppy otherwise.
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It’s great to see the new streetcars actually in Toronto … and in my old neighbourhood … well, stomping grounds … to boot!
I wonder how and when the transfer to Hillcrest will take place. Dead of night or light of day? With or without a railfan escort?
Cheers, moaz
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That sucker already derailed, and it hasn’t even been painted green yet.
Steve said …
I know what you mean. They look too modern and “sterile” and feel more like buses with steel wheels than streetcars. I rode one of the new subway trains recently, and I felt like I was in an operating room, or the inside of a tin can. The new vehicles have no “warmth” whatsoever.
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Are 4400 and 4401 “prototypes” in the same way that 4000-4005 were, or are they prototypes in the sense of 4900? Will 440x be part of the regular service fleet once the bugs are all worked out?
Steve: Yes the three prototypes, 4400-4402, will be part of the regular fleet eventually.
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Keep in mind that accessibility extends to more than just low floors. People without full sight will probably appreciate being able to see the doors as an entirely different colour, especially given they’re passenger-operated.
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Nick L wrote,
Are you sure of this? I got an unconfirmed report several months ago that a Rocket train was being tested in revenue service on BD. I had my doubts about the report, but that was based on no platform markers in BD stations since the TTC made a big thing about the installation of the markers on YUS before the arrival of the first Rocket.
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Saw a picture of the back of the streetcar, and it seems to me the ‘No Passing’ sign is a bit small. The words are nice and big though. Hopefully they will make the sign bigger as well. Also, will that sign light up when the streetcar is ready to load/off-load?
Also noticed at there is a sign at the top. Will that also flash a warning sign for cars to stop? Cars running past loading streetcars has always been a problem (a dangerous one too), and I worry these sliding doors will make it harder for drivers to notice.
Steve: The sliding doors are supposed to have flashing lights on their edges, but how visible they are remains to be seen especially in daylight. I was not very impressed by this design because it sets up one more way, and an important one, for people to complain about streetcars.
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I was unaware that subway cars had to be certified to cross the Viaduct. Why?
Steve: News to me too. Maybe they are afraid of heights.
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Hi Steve
Your comment about Ford causing a delay in the new streetcar contract makes me wonder how much he added to the cost of the order. Still, I am glad that despite the delay our “mayor” was not able to cancel the contract altogether.
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As I understood it, the TR cars are shipped by rail (likely to the MacMillan yard near Keele and Hwy 407) where they are transferred to trucks for the short trip to Wilson. I can’t imagine that with the train height + superstructure+suspension of a truck, that they would clear the many low clearance bridges between Toronto and Thunder Bay.
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Lets hope that the security at the CPR Lambton Yard is adequate. After all, it is would only be 4 km from the Mayor’s home to reach the yard. Even if he is only going to the Walmart next to it.
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Just a nasty thought. How is the TTC going to try running the prototype car in revenue service before they get the entire system changed over to Presto or have fare machines installed at all stops. I assume that they will try to run them in revenue service before they start with the main order. The TTC will have enough problems getting the machines installed on Spadina before 2o14 without forcing all its passengers to switch to Presto.
If these cars initially run from Leslie Maintenance Facility (I still prefer car house or barn) will they run in service along Queen and King? Will they put Presto or fare machines along King and Queen when they start the service on Spadina? How does a person who wants to pay cash get on them if they don`t have a fare box? Just a few evil thoughts as I eagerly await the arrival of the 4400’s along with Presto.
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I’m also going to guess that there’s going to be many safety issues with the current practice of passengers walking into traffic to load, that the city will even consider:
-banning cars on all of these streets, or
-make it a law to make any sort of passing of a streetcar illegal.
Simply introducing these streetcars alone is not enough. There’s going to have to be a lot of changes to the right-of-way, traffic rules, and operating practices to make it work.
Steve: Oh please tell me this is a joke. We all seem to be forgetting that once upon a time, the TTC ran two-car trains of PCCs, and before that motor-trailer combinations, that were the same length as the new cars.
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I have seen the TRs on highway 69 on trucks, around the french river … at night, a few vehicles at a time and lots of flashing lights (wide load).
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From what I’ve heard, it was a question of weight and being in no rush to confirm it due to the Rockets being dedicated to the YUS line. However, I did hear about it a while ago so it sounds like they finally got around to confirming it.
Steve: Considering that the TTC’s long term fleet plans now include shifting the TRs to the BD line once the T1s come up for retirement, they have to be able to operate there. If not, that’s a rather big “oops”.
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I don’t believe that. The TRs had to have been tested on both lines as well as the steep grades and sharp curves in the wye before acceptance (ie. tunnel clearances). Similar things were said about the Gloucesters a long time ago — that they were too heavy for the viaduct and that they were confined to YUS because of that. Nonsense.
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(Figures I would find the source after I reply)
What it was is that there was a question about how well the viaduct could handle the weight of a fully loaded rocket. Due to the Rockets being dedicated to the YUS, the TTC apparently took their time answering it.
So what I thought was a certification sounds more like a case of “if we can’t use it, why bother?”
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Steve:
Also that these new streetcars are only about 23 feet (7m) longer than the current ALRVs — so I don’t see why everyone is so concerned about their length. I do believe some stops will have to be re-evaluated, but to suggest there is going to be mayhem on the streets because of 23 feet is absurd — and I’m a motorist as well.
Motorists, pedestrians and commuters will all have to “prepare” for the vehicles impending arrival — but it’s not going to be some catastrophe!
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Steve:
I wasn’t talking about the vehicle length at all. I was talking about the potential difficulty for motorists to notice open doors. Now the streetcars will be accommodating people in wheelchairs, who may not be able to run out of the way as easily for a careless motorist as able-bodied people. Yes, there’s a light, but even you have doubts about it.
All I’m saying is don’t expect these drastic proposals to not get any mention in the next few years.
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TTCHillcrest said:
Looking at UrbanToronto [links here deleted as they are valid only for logged on members] there seems to be an awful lot of mechanics for a “fibreglass mock-up”.
Steve: It is NOT a mock-up.
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Thanks for showing the vehicle from the front. No green bulls-eye light like they have on the PCC’s and Peter Witts. I’m assuming the two upper corner lights are the blue handicap lights to indicate handicap accessible vehicle. Maybe the TTC could add the light themselves, and they could request a modification before production.
Steve: There will not be an “advance” light. The design review committee asked already.
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It was kinda interesting to see that extra flat cars were required as clearance spacers because the LRV was just slightly too long for the main one. Did anyone record the reporting marks and numbers of the flat cars? (One photo has the main one.) It would make for a neat modelling project in the future.
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Your source must be a numbskull. The viaduct handled the Gloucesters during the integrated service test, and they were much heavier trains.
The ignorance of some TTC staff is really amazing. For instance, Karen Stintz was recently quoted as saying that YUS is *currently* capable of driverless automatic operation. Where did she get that?
Steve: And moreover, she doesn’t know that the TTC does not have enough TRs on order to convert the entire line (as extended to Vaughan) to ATO-capable trains. Just one more of those unadvertised extra costs TTC management conveniently forget to mention.
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Here’s a photo of workers preparing to move the new LRV from the rail car to a truck trailer. Both have tracks installed for the new LRV to move along. Between the two vehicles a small section of welded track has been put into place over which this 48,200 kg vehicle will move.
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It seems incredibly dumb that they had to make this transfer to truck rather than having the spur track ready. Please tell me they’re going to have their act together for the main production run.
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