Despite the premise of an open, competitive bid among potential carbuilders for new subway trains, various politicians have openly argued that the work should go to the historical provider, the Alstom (formerly Bombardier) plant in Thunder Bay.
On August 15, all three funding governments, Canada, Ontario and Toronto announced that a sole-source contract will be awarded to Alstom Transport Canada. This is intended to support Canadian jobs and an existing manufacturing facility. All bidders have been notified that the former bid process has been cancelled.
According to the news release:
To ensure that Alstom delivers state-of-the-art trains at a fair market price, maximizes the creation of Canadian jobs, and benefits Toronto, Alstom must:
• deliver a product that is compliant with the TTC’s original requirements;
• maximize Canadian content and create Canadian jobs;
• have its pricing subject to an independent third-party market price assessment.
It is expected that negotiations will occur over the next few months with a report back to the TTC Board on the status of negotiations by the end of the year.
The proposed contract would provide 70 new trains
- 55 trains to replace the existing Line 2 fleet
- 15 trains for the North Yonge and Scarborough extensions
There is also provision for future train orders that would support expansion of service on both Lines 1 and 2. The 55 trains are sufficient to operate Line 2 at the capacity supported by its existing signal system, but more trains would be needed to exploit the capabilities of CBTC (Computer Based Train Control) which will be installed in coming years. Similarly, the existing Line 1 fleet will support the pre-CBTC service level of 140 seconds (25.7 trains/hour), but more trains are needed to go beyond that level. There is no funding for the additional trains in current budgets, nor for the added maintenance facilities a larger fleet will require.
The award of additional trains to Alstom is dependent on their performance on the 70-train order.
The new release states:
The TTC is working diligently to ensure the aging Line 2 fleet operates safely and reliably until new trains arrive.
Originally, the TTC had planned to replace the Line 2 trains by 2026, but that scheme was shelved by former CEO Rick Leary who claimed the trains could be life-extended to 2040. That solved a budget pressure for funding, including the proposed new maintenance yard at Kipling, but created a potential crisis in subway reliability and fleet availability.
The TTC has more than 55 of the current T-1 stock used on Line 2 due to changes over the years in the scope of automatic train control implementation on Line 1. These would, if all trains were working, have allowed the Scarborough extension to open using the existing fleet, but only barely. The delay in the Scarborough project bought the TTC time to procure new trains.
The challenge now is to keep the T-1 fleet operating reliably until new cars arrive. TTC management reported at a Board meeting earlier this year that some cars are being used as a source of spare parts. There are obvious limits to how far this practice can go, and if carried too far will limit the TTC’s ability to restore full pre-pandemic service on Line 2.
See also:
Steve Munro 
That’s 70 articulated trains of 6 cars each, totalling 420 cars. We should be able to walk inside the open gangway of the Line 2 trains from one end to the other, just like on the Line 1 trains. Unless they decide to shift the current Toronto Rocket train fleet from Line 1 to Line 2.
Steve: You have not been paying attention to previous articles about the design of Line 2 trains. They will have open gangways like the Line 1 fleet, but will be configured so that they can be broken into two-car sets due to physical limitations at Greenwood Shops. There will be hostler controls on the cars that do not have cabs.
The trains will not be articulated, but will have six physical cars just as the TR’s on Line 1 do.
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I don’t know when they are scheduled to be handed over to the TTC, but given its track record, I wouldn’t be surprised if these trains are ready before any of those 2 extensions actually open…
The source of my confidence you ask?
We have already had the Metrolinx CEO mentioning an ageing fleet for a line that isn’t even open.
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I’m sure Alstom can still milk TTC despite what was written.
Also, now that it’s sole sourced , yes TTC wants the trains to be spec’d a certain way, but Alstom can also resist some design requests, knowing it’s sole sourced contract anyways. Would they have more room to deny design requests from TTC?
Steve: Actually, if you look at the details of the spec, it is strongly derived from the TRs on Line 1, and if anything Alstom would have a leg up simply because they already built these cars.
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I wonder what’s going to happen with Obico Yard. Do we have space for the extra 15-trains?
Especially when the province is mulling about a Sheppard Subway extension, it seems like the Yard would need to be built before shovels get on the ground.
Thanks for the article, Steve. I hope you’re enjoying Summer & keeping well during this heat wave. 🙂
Best regards
Steve: There are plans, but no funding, for a new yard at the north end of the Yonge extension. Scarborough will have some storage at Sheppard East station, and there are a few other places to salt away a train here and there. TTC is delaying the Obico/Kipling yard project as long as possible and, I suspect, hopes to bundle it with a westward extension of Line 2 that would provide the access track.
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All contentious, albeit obvious from the terms of the original tender…however:
Whoa….on the face of it, rational. But upon further consideration, I see a massive problem coming down the tracks….
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Unrelated: I was recently invited to ride the Eglinton LRT. We rode from Mount Dennis to Kennedy and back to Mount Dennis. Trust me on this, the at grade sections are horrible even with the right of way. After 15 years of construction and almost 20 billion dollars (inflation adjusted cost in future 2026 dollars when the line might open at the earliest), we could have gotten something far better for it. The ultra-slow at grade sections are not going to encourage people to move from cars to streetcars.
Steve: If the at grade sections are ultra slow, it is the combined stupidity of the TTC and City Transportation. They are built as if they are mainline railways. I am waiting until they officially run simulated revenue service to see what that looks like.
If they ever get around to giving press previews, it will be interesting to hear explanations of the speed or lack of it.
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Why can’t they make a contract with Construcciones y Auxiliar de Ferrocarriles (CAF) we never have CAF trains in Canada before.
Steve: I wouldn’t be surprised if they were one of the bidders, but the political decision has been to go with Alstom to give work to the plant in Thunder Bay.
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If the province really wants to “preserve jobs” (a laudable goal) why not buy the entire facility and lease it to the winning bidder? That gets you out of sole-source price-gouging.
Put the plant under some phony-baloney “corporation” created to, I dunno, “develop urban transit” or something.
I’m sure there’s a way to structure it so that the pols get their “fees” and the taxpayers get reasonable results.
Steve: Once upon a time there was an entity called the Ontario Transportation Development Corporation, later renamed “Urban” to make their products marketable in BC. It owned the Thunder Bay plant for a time.
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But we won’t be able to do this for the very poorly thought out Eglinton LRT. As for the new subway trains, our transit friendly Premier Sir Douglas Ford announced funding for these many years ago but Trudeau would not provide his share though I would note that Trudeau had no problem providing funding for new trains and new lines, etc in his native Montreal, Quebec. Ontario always gets the short end of the stick. There needs to be equal treatment of all provinces, no more Quebec favouritism please.
Steve: Your “friend” Sir Douglas, made the commitment to the Line 2 trains in late 2023 which is hardly “years ago”:
This was contingent on the Feds coming in to the deal which they did in November 2024. [Press release]
One of these days, you will get your facts right, but this isn’t one of them.
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People online talk about the cost of trains and that putting the order to tender might lower the cost.
I remember when the streetcar order went to tender and Bombardier still had the lowest price due to already having a presence in Thunder Bay.
i wonder if that would be the case with the subway order, Alstom already has the experience building TTCs car and they have an established relationship.
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The TTC should have to compensate other bidders. Why the TTC repeatedly wastes other manufacturers’ money who have to go through the costly bidding process when it has already been pre-determined that the contract would always go to Alstom (previously Bombardier)? The other manufacturers should join in and launch a lawsuit against the TTC. Similarly, BYD should sue the TTC for awarding part of the eBus contract to Nova Bus which never participated in the trials.
Steve: The RFP documents tell bidders that they are spending their money at their own risk. It is no different from what would have happened if the competition had run to completion and only one vendor was successful. This is part of the cost of doing business. Car builders with a savvy knowledge of the Canadian industry might assume that the fix was in from the start for the Thunder Bay plant given how similar the spec for the new cars is to the existing TRs, and had the good sense not to waste their time.
As for BYD, they failed to properly support their vehicles with long lead times for delivery (the reason that the extra buses went to other vendors) and spare parts. It’s ironic how some people dump on Bombardier/Alstom for their political “in”, and yet BYD attempted to use City Hall connections to skirt a proper bidding process for the original demo fleet which they hoped to get on a sole-source basis.
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OK. So I know different jurisdictions do things differently and trains are built differently. And I fully recognize that at some point you must upgrade your rolling stock. So don’t take this as a “why are we spending the money when other transit systems have older trains?” attempted ‘gotcha!’
But…
Why, or how, is it we need to replace the T1s that are 30 years old at the oldest when TfL is still running trains that are ≥50 years old (1973 Stock on the Piccadilly Line; 1972 Stock on the Bakerloo)?
Largely more a rhetorical question. But I see those old trains and see the relatively younger T1s and wonder.
Steve: Part of the problem is that the design life of the trains is 30 years. This is especially true of the electronics. Trains from the early 1970s would likely still have mechanical controls. There can also be issues with structural failures of components like the trucks which were not intended for a 50-year life. Looking at the T1s, they do not appear to be at death’s door, but it is hard to know what they look like underneath. We do know that their MDBF is lower than the TRs, and the TTC has been insulated from fleet reliability issues with a comfortable spare ratio in the T-1 fleet. However, they have also started to raid less reliable cars for spare parts. That is not a good sign.
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Montréal is still running 1970s Métro stock.
But their trains don’t have A/C and their trains never go outdoors. Unlike the TTC.
I was stuck on some of the T1s a few years back when they had many A/C failures. The T1s were not designed for proper ventilation lacking A/C, and they got ridiculously hot and stuffy inside.
As I understand it, London’s Tube system does not have A/C on trains either?
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The S Stock used on the sub-surface lines in London have A/C, as do the deep-level 2024 Stock, currently in testing.
And on the topic of old trains still running in regular service in various parts of the world, there are a lot in Japan. Such as the Yoro Railway 7700 series, which were originally built in the ’60s as Japan’s first all-stainless steel trains, the Tokyu 7000 series.
Tokyu did a major refurbishment on some of them in the late ’80s/early ’90s, and renumbered those as the 7700 series. Modifications included installing air-conditioning and replacing the DC motors and resistance controllers with AC motors and GTO thyristor-based VVVF drives (similar to the T-1’s traction system). They were also modified again in 2000 for one-person operation. Tokyu retired them in 2018, but 16 cars (3x 3-car sets, 3x 2-car sets and a spare) were sold to Yoro Railway, where they replaced about half their fleet of similarly aged, but non-stainless steel, trains that were suffering from corrosion.
Steve: Thanks for the details. I know there are elderly cars on some systems. The question is what conditions they were built to survive. Older cars tended to be more robust. One major issue Toronto has than London does not is salt-laden snow tracked into cars. It rots the floors and the structure underneath. Some earlier TTC cars, notably the H-6 fleet, had various problems including cracked trucks that had to be replaced.
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It’s really tiring to constantly hear the same argument about old (70s/80s) trains running elsewhere, the correct point of comparison is trains from that time period that ran *here*, which is why the T1s are up for replacement *now*. Funny how the same argument was never once brought up when those trains were being replaced 15 years ago.
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To add on to this, any idea how long they intend to keep the converted T1 work cars around after the last cars are removed from service (and if any more will be converted in the future)? Some older cars survived as work cars for nearly 2 decades after being retired, but that could very well be due to having mechanical controls rather than electronics.
Steve: I don’t know what the plans are for future work cars built from retired revenue vehicles. I have a query in to TTC about the state of the work car renewal program, if any.
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Have they already made plans for disposal of those units once all useful parts are removed?
Steve: I don’t know, but doubt that they have stripped cars for parts rather than using them as a convenient “warehouse”.
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