The planned expansion of Broadview Station Loop to allow two streetcars to occupy the 505 Dundas loading bay at a time has been deferred to an unspecified later date.
At the TTC Board meeting on June 12, CEO Rick Leary said that there would be a new operating procedure at the loop where streetcars would not lay over, although just how this will be achieved is difficult to understand. A common requirement at terminals is for operators to have a short “nature break”, and this is really not something that can be eliminated by managerial fiat.
A related problem is that schedules generally have excessive running time to avoid the need for short turns. If cars do not take layovers at terminals they will make even slower trips across their routes than they do today. On King and Dundas, they have the option of putting all of the layover time at their western terminals.
The TTC has an astounding ability to make streetcar service slower and less reliable, and this has become so ingrained it is hard to see any improvement in the near future.
Operational details of the change have yet to be announced, and in any event we will not see the effect until 2024 when streetcars finally return to Broadview Station.
Track work at the station planned for June 2023 will now address the on-street track on Broadview and Erindale while the loop will wait for another day when and if it is expanded.
Steve Munro 
“Deferred.” Standard for TTC when they don’t get the funding needed. That and “go slow” instead of proper infrastructure and priority.
Steve: The TTC advises that this work is deferred due to feedback from the neighbourhood, not due to funding limits. I am not holding my breath that it will ever occur.
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“feedback from the neighbourhood” = we’d rather have more parking than a bigger parkette?
Steve: I don’t know the details and have to find out what has delayed this work.
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Ouch! And so true. As much as I’ve been reticent to ‘jump-in’ on the discussions of late, I have to add a subjective observation on Dundas West Station “improvements” re: the streetcar tracks.
Errr…someone alert me when they notice one. Ostensibly now they can cram two tram-trains without the one following not blocking traffic. Except for that third one and more…
From my window on the Dundas/Bloor junction, I can only see the last ten metres or so of trackage north of Bloor. And yet it’s still frequently blocked with trams, and at least one still has to wait south of Bloor for entry.
I see a parking lot immediately to the west of the station. It could stack *many* tram trains. I leave it there…
Steve: And Dundas West already has been expanded to hold two cars on each track.
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Steve writes in answer to my prior post:
Exactly. As Steve stated prior to the sentence I quoted:
And apparently, that’s what’s happening, with no capacity for lay-by . There was every opportunity to have a lay-by on Edna Avenue when they had the road dug-up to reinstall track. This is exactly what’s done now with buses.
I mentioned the ‘Edna parking area’ prior. Without even touching that, Edna Ave offered space to ‘stack’ at least one tram-train for longer-term storage (allowing other trams to pass).
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Self sabotage at it’s finest.
It’s appaling that the streetcar division gets away with this and other non-evidence based irrational operation decisions (eg. Network slow orders, stop and proceed, no passing cars in special work etc.).
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Do you know when will streetcar service on 501 Queen to Long Branch Loop will return?
Steve: The last date I saw for it was the end of July, but I will believe it when I see the service announcement.
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I think I’ve said this before, but I’m amazed how the TTC used to be able to run both King and Dundas from smaller loops with one track at both Broadview and Dundas West stations (where Dundas ran in two directions for a bit too) at higher frequencies in the past, but can’t manage with much larger loops and often greater than 10 minute headways now.
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Unfortunately, people in the Greater Downtown Area literally oppose everything and so, this streetcar loop cannot be expanded. Remember the big fight over five 50 years old trees at Osgoode Hall? Remember the big fight over Metrolinx’ decision to store three GO Trains in the Don Valley for two hours a day, five days a week? In contrast in Scarborough, we raise our concerns but move on with it even if the decision is against us. Look at the McNicoll Bus Garage, it could never have been built in the Greater Downtown Area due to endless NIMBYism and so, they built it right next to multiple seniors’ buildings and long-term care homes in Scarborough; sure we had objected but we moved on with it once a decision was taken against us. The time to expand this streetcar loop is now or never and so, I hope that the NIMBYies will do the right thing and allow this much needed improvement to be built.
Steve: I suspect that the “NIMBYs” are merchants who think they will go bankrupt if parking is removed in the TPA lot where the loop expansion would go.
As for Osgoode Hall, the issue there was a standin for many more trees everywhere, and on a bona fide historic site. As for the Don Valley storage area (which I can see out of my window), one big issue was that Metrolinx claimed they would only have temporary daytime storage, but their plans were clearly designed for overnight operation. Metrolinx has only a passing familiarity with the truth in a lot of their community relations. As for McNicoll Garage, the land was zoned industrial before the senior’s home went in, and that home wound up on that site because there were, wait for it, NIMBY objections elsewhere.
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What a TOTAL disgrace! This plan has been ‘on the books’ for many years and I think the contract has already been awarded (it was certainly posted). Does nobody at the TTC have any shame?
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Could they not quickly build the Riverdale loop in the parking lot at Queen and Broadview and send every other train there? At least that way, there’s a built in break to keep efficiency up? Definitely would impact frequency up at Broadview station, but at least it could be a stop gap measure until Gerrard station opens and they could reorient the 505 there.
Steve: The plan to send the 505 Dundas to Gerrard Station was dropped to reduce project costs. If the Broadview streetcar to the Port Lands is ever built, this problem will return. However, I doubt that provision will be made at Gerrard Station for a streetcar loop (or for buses either). Also, building the Queen/Broadview loop would require procurement of special work which would prevent construction until sometime in 2024 at the earliest.
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One thing I remember from my travels through Europe a few years ago was how much space there was at the termini of most tram lines. St. Clair station and Main would be small loops. They often had more than one track and space for 4 or 5 LRTs.
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Hopefully, in 30+ years the TTC will be ordering double-ended streetcars. That way we can do away with loops and replace them with wyes and crossovers. They can then put in temporary crossovers at construction locations, like they do outside of North America.
Steve: Note that whether it is a loop or a crossover, there has to be room to store cars during layovers.
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Weren’t they just working on the streetcar platforms a couple of years ago? I feel like they are “upgrading” this station more often than I upgrade my cellphone.
Steve: The King platform was extended to fit two cars at once. This was a minor change compared to the work needed to make more room for 505 Dundas.
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Not sure if I’m stating the obvious here…
Why does the TTC not operate 504/505 with step-back, or double step-back crewing to eliminate the queuing issue at Broadview Stn?
The loop does need to be expanded though.
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The general suspicion is that this was engineered by Councillor Fletcher. No doubt the loss of Green P parking spots was too much for her! We may need a strong Mayor after all (if they give priority to transit!)
Steve: Yes, the BIA was no doubt weeping and wailing about the importance of that lot.
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Like EYorker, I agree that a possible outcome here is that stepback crewing will be employed. I have been banging this particular drum for some time – that we have these incredibly expensive streetcars and (other than providing enclosed shelter not otherwise provided at street level) it makes no sense for them to linger – they do not rest or recharge.
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At some point, you just have to start firing people. Start at the top though. Always punch up, never down.
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Start firing at the top?? You have to be kidding…. I will agree it is needed, probably in the first 3 or 4 layers of management – (CEO, Service planning head, etc.) but that would mean the City Council would look stupid for hiring them, and the Board would look incompetent for taking Rick Leary’s et al “whistle a happy tune” metrics for so long. No politician on the earth will voluntarily give themselves “a punch in the pills”.
Steve: By the time you get down to the head of Service Planning, you are at a layer where a lot of what happens is implementing what they are told to run and make the best of it. That has always been a thankless position including internal wrangling about scheduling and operations.
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If we’re terminating TTC executives and management, I would add the useless safety officers to the list. Under their watch we’ve had subway near-miss cover ups, a laissez-faire attitude towards violent crime on the system, victim blaming, and the streetcar system.
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