The TTC has announced that the use of traditional fare media will be phased out starting in 2017 with the goal of complete conversion to smart card technology by the middle of that year.
A presentation by Deputy CEO Chris Upfold at the June 22, 2015 TTC Board meeting outlined the project.
Current plans for migration to Presto will see all streetcars and subway stations equipped with readers by the end of 2015, and the bus fleet by the end of 2016. This will lead to all-door loading and proof-of-payment operation on the entire streetcar system by the end of 2015.
Presto (part of Metrolinx) is responsible for the entire fare collection system with only a few exceptions, notably the gates in subway stations. In return, they will receive 5.25% of fares collected through their system, a lower cost to the TTC than its estimated 7% on the existing system.
As riders on the new streetcars already know, the procedure for obtaining a paper “transfer” or fare receipt is cumbersome for Presto users as this is handled by a completely separate device which is not beside the Presto reader. This will be a major disincentive for riders who must transfer to a route where Presto is not in use. (Moreover, given the TTC’s chronic inability to reliably schedule its fleet, I fully expect non-Presto buses to show up on “Presto” routes.)
Riders who now use tokens would still require them up to the point where their travel is all in “Presto” territory. A pass user whose travel involves non-Presto routes has no incentive to change to Presto because they would have to revert to the standard fares rather than the pass-based discounts. The transitional year, 2016, will be a challenge.
TTC management will propose, in November 2015, a scheme for the new fare structure. Among major decisions the TTC and City Council (because of subsidy implications) must consider will be:
- How much transit usage will one “fare” purchase? There has been talk of a time-based fare (two hours, say), but this has been opposed in some quarters, including the Mayor’s office. With luck, he will reconsider.
- If the TTC moves to a zonal system, this will require “tap off” at vehicle and station exits to ensure that the appropriate fare is paid. This would be a major change for the TTC, and could produce severe congestion for passenger handling on surface vehicles.
- The handling of transfers between surface and subway is now designed in most locations to be barrier-free. Riders do not necessarily “leave” the system on the route where they started.
- Through services into other jurisdictions (e.g. Toronto to York Region by bus or subway) raise the questions of zones and revenue sharing. Does York Region collect a YRT/VIVA fare for the inbound trip and TTC a fare for outbound? At stations like Vaughan Centre, the process is simple – set up a fare barrier – but for routes crossing the boundary, the situation is not as straightforward. Gone are the days when an operator could walk through a bus with a hand-held farebox at the zone boundary.
These are just some of the issues facing the TTC for its own system, and another whole layer is added for “integration” with other transit networks, notably GO and the future SmartTrack which will share GO facilities, but operate with TTC fares and transfer privileges. Metrolinx plans to produce its own study on fare integration in September 2015, and this will probably set the stage for the options available to the TTC.
Although initially the system will accept only Presto cards, support for credit/debit cards and smart phones will follow in 2018. This entails a major change in the Presto architecture, work that is now underway for an implementation in Washington DC. Instead of storing your account balance on the card, this information will be kept by the “back end” systems and your card (or smart phone app) will only be used as an identifier. (A good analogy is a phone bill where the record of calls and billing are handled by the carrier, not by equipment where the phone is used nor by the phone itself.)
In subway stations, new fare gates will be installed at both the primary and “secondary” entrances which are now only available for token and pass users. These gates will initially be set up with readers only on the “entry” side, but will have the capability of “exit” readers if a fare scheme requiring “tap out” functionality is implemented. The need for new gates, and to move away from some existing equipment such as “high gate” turnstiles, comes from limitations of the current setup, especially at “automatic” entrances which cannot be used by many people. With Presto and the move away from fare inspection by a collector at entry, the distinction of an “automatic” entrance disappears.
It may be possible to wean everyone onto new fare media fairly quickly once the bus system is converted, but there are many issues related to casual users and a variety of concession fares notably free rides for children, family/group passes, and the distribution of fares for low income riders by social agencies.
The TTC seems very “gung ho” to get on with this migration, but in the absence of details, people will inevitably pepper them with “how will you do this” questions. Waiting for the November report is, I believe, a poor strategy and at least a preliminary discussion of options and implications should be published now if only to frame the debate.
Steve Munro 
Steve: This comment was originally entered in another thread.
I just have to ask about this National Post article.
According to it, tokens have been around for about 10 years. I thought this might be a typo for 100, but then it specifically gives 2006 as the year in which they were introduced.
Do you have any idea what they might be thinking and how they might have gotten confused? I do know tokens were different when I was a kid — just an aluminum coin, instead of the two-metal design they use now — but they definitely existed and weren’t new either.
Steve: The bi-metal token, dubbed by some the “Giambroonie” by analogy to the form of a “Twonie” and the former TTC Chair’s surname, was introduced as an anti-counterfeit measure. It had the interesting side-effect of requiring TTC’s revenue handling operations to move to a new building with sufficiently strong floors to handle the extra weight. Tokens have been around since the Yonge subway opened in 1954.
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The migration of the monthly pass to Presto is a likely flashpoint. Given the amount of people at the TTC who still despise the pass as a revenue loser, I’m afraid that the most annoying approach will be implemented.
One basic question they need to answer:
Do you pay until you reach a monthly total after which everything is free? That’s the current GO approach and although that makes sense for a commuter, a lot of us use the pass for quick hop on and offs. Do people really want to be counting how many trips they take? That would probably cause people to take transit less. Does the TTC want to encourage people to take transit or discourage it?
Or
Do you pay up front and not worry about it?
Steve: Chris Upfold was talking about this after the meeting to the press, and at this point either option is available. Either they use the GO model with caps (which could also be weekly or daily), or they offer a “pass” equivalent as a product to be loaded onto your account. Both are possible, but they have not yet made a decision. I suspect that the equivalent to the “monthly discount plan” would only be available by prior subscription as this commits you up front to buying 12 months of travel at the reduced rate.
I also find the idea of making a kid under 12 tap on and off when the ride is free ludicrous, especially when that means charging families $6 a kid to use the system. What was the rationale provided at the meeting? Or didn’t they get into details like that? Following on twitter didn’t indicate that there were many questions from commission members.
Steve: The need is to operate the subway turnstiles. Presumably parents will carry or wheel younger children through the turnstile with them, although large families will pose an interesting challenge. Groups (whether they pay or not) are a real problem for automatic fare collection.
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My favourite part of this scheme is how kids, who get to ride free, must carry a Presto card on them to get through the fare gates. Parents will have a ball paying $6 each time their kid misplaces the card, to say nothing of waiting for it to arrive in the mail or trekking out to Union to buy one in person.
Is there any news on making the card itself more accessible, or enabling Presto via mobile phone app?
Steve: Coming in 2018: credit/debit card and phone app support. You would still need one phone/kid which is rather more expensive than a $6 Presto card. I think the real issue will arise with low-income families who now receive transit subsidies by various means including direct issue of tokens and tickets. School trips should be loads of fun!
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I think that the TTC also needs to announce the end of TTC jackets as a friend of mine purchased one from a TTC driver for $1000 a few years ago and he says that it’s been worth it. This is a common way for many TTC drivers to make a large amount of tax free cash and law abiding TTC customers have to pay for this in increased fares. I reported my friend to Crime Stoppers a few years ago but they took no action. TTC employees should have to pay TTC fare too. TTC drivers/collectors who often fight with customers over allegedly expired transfers, etc would know what it feels like if they themselves have to pay fare. Everybody else has to pay for their commute and so TTC drivers should also have to and it would also cut down on fare fraud and tax fraud as described above (I doubt that the TTC driver would pay sales tax or income tax for the sale of the jacket). TTC has to do more than just Fare Enforcement on customers if it wants to end fare evasion as many TTC employees are complicit. Of course, the vast majority of TTC employees are honest hardworking people but there exist many bad apples too.
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Are there any checks and balances in place to prevent Presto from under-reporting collected revenue?
Steve: An auditing system is part of the TTC’s contract with Presto.
I think that the fare collection cost is much more than 7% (infrastructure, infrastructure maintenance, collectors, fare enforcement officers, special constables, etc). A cheaper fare will make more people voluntarily pay and less money will have to be spent on enforcement and so you should be preaching cheaper fares.
Steve: I will believe that total costs, including enforcement, will go down enough to make a dent in fares when I see it. Meanwhile, if there is any more money as a result of this, it should go into service.
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We assume that the cards will still be $6 eighteen months from now. They used to cost more than $6, and producing them en masse for the TTC should result in a massive increase in production scale, which may allow them to drop the price. I have a hard time believing that a credit card with an RFID chip costs $6/unit to mass produce.
As for school/camp/daycare trips, if they board via a surface vehicle it’s a non-issue, as the driver can simply let them on, and inspectors have no reason to check them. If they board via the station, I would imagine that the former collectors now customer assistants (or whatever title they get) will have a way to over-ride the fare gates (I’m sure there will be other rare situations, just as there are now, where this will be necessary).
And there’s no reason to go to Union to get a new card – every TTC and GO station should have them on hand by then, and they will likely be available through other outlets too.
Steve: I am thinking of cases where a group of students at least some of whom are over 12 year old (and therefore fare-paying) go on a school outing. The fares for this do not always come from the students, but there is no mechanism announced for group fares. I was easily able to look up Group Travel the sites for London, Paris and Montreal. Some of these presume the availability of a ticket agent at stations, although vending machine sales are possible in some cases. All of the sites are silent on the issue of a group beginning its journey on a surface vehicle.
As for the “customer assistants” will be hard to find given that they have an entire station to look after. The TTC seems to have various ideas of what they will do, and they will not necessarily be sitting at the main entrance when a group shows up so that they can handle entry. How often have you seen a TTC “Station Manager”? These problems must have been solved elsewhere many times over, and I am astounded that the TTC has not started to address them publicly, if only to give a sense that they are trying to be ahead of the problems and questions rather than playing catch-up.
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I wonder how fare integration is going to work on the Eglinton/Finch LRT.
Since these lines are run by Metrolinx presumably some sort of formula will have to be used if a passenger uses both the TTC and the LRT lines. It would not make sense to charge extra for using these lines. If there is no barrier when transferring to the LRT at Eglinton West/Eglinton/Kennedy or Finch West, then how will we know when people are transferring? Would revenue simply be divided based on ridership counts? Also I think that fare by distance is poorly suited for above ground LRT because it is cumbersome to tap on and off at an above ground LRT station.
Steve: They haven’t got that far in discussions yet.
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Josh Colle was quoted on CBC as welcoming the end of cash. How do casual or one-time users access the system then? And if you allow cash, you must have a receipt (neé transfer) to provide POP. Note that even GO, as far as I know, issues paper-based one-ride and day passes in return for cash paid, including on the buses.
While the infrastructure to charge the cards per ride might be present, I wonder how people will acquire and reload the cards? At present, you can buy tokens at many neighbourhood stores. Will they be able to sell — or preferably give out for free — Presto cards? How will institutions — including the City of Toronto — provide discount transit passes on the Volume Incentive Plan?
I think that charging people $6 for a Presto card is not reasonable, and the “warranty” on them expires soon enough. I have a Presto card that’s stopped working. I’m not running out and spending another $6 to get it working again.
“Hook up the $6 Presto card to auto-load from your bank account” is what I hear people say, but not everyone wants or is able to do this, given their financial means and the way banks love to charge per transaction. Lots of people pay cash today; will they be willing to switch to Presto? For a transit geek or present user of GO and TTC, Presto is a convenience. For someone who occasionally hops on a streetcar and throws in $3 in coins, Presto is a cumbersome nuisance.
Steve: The TTC’s model seems to ignore the fact that some people still use cash, and there is a strong push to get away from people “sitting in booths”. Cash of course can be accepted by machines either in the subway or on the surface, but if the fare receipt cannot be read by a turnstile, one is stuck. I have the strong sense that the TTC (and Presto) have not thought this through completely, and that there are ulterior motives behind some proposed changes. It’s ironic that this is happening in an era when the TTC is supposed to be all about “customer convenience”, and yet the focus is on mechanized ticketing and elimination of fare handling by staff.
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There is a $6 non-refundable fee to purchase a new PRESTO card. Then one must add a minimum of $10 to the card balance, and it needs to be registered, activated, and then used within 30 days. Did I get that right?
Sometimes the $6 fee is waived during promotions for the PRESTO card. Waiting for one in Toronto, but not before I have to use it. What if I want to get the PRESTO during a promotion, but want to use up my tokens or passes first?
That’s why I’m not in a rush to get a PRESTO card, until I have to.
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Why would the mayor’s office be against time based transfers? Is this all a plan to convert to some fare by distance system that slows transit down? Someone needs to put together the amount of time wasted if every passenger has to scan twice vs scanning once.
Steve: Tory has opposed it because it represents a potential loss of revenue and requirement for more subsidy.
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Let’s do away with the turnstiles (a la GO) where there are fare-paid and fare-not-paid zones. If it is necessary to tap off/tap on if a zone system is adopted, you still don’t need turnstiles. The receipt (transfer) becomes your POP and can be inspected, just as your Presto card can be “inspected” for POP.
Or the fare receipt is made machine-readable, the same way your lottery ticket is machine readable. A machine readable receipt would allow for “tap off/tap on” when changing buses or zone boundaries.
Steve: Ah yes, why turnstiles? Vancouver started out barrier free, but has retrofitted turnstiles to their system. GO has the advantage of a “captive” market for fare inspection on the comparatively long trips between stations.
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There has, however, been a lot of criticism of the turnstile program, and it seems to have been driven much more by the politics of perceived fare evasion than Translink interest in barriers. My understanding is that on any kind of cost benefit basis it didn’t even come close to making sense.
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I still question the day pass issue. From Monday to Friday, or for the individual passenger any day of the week, the change to a day pass fee using your PRESTO card will have no impact on the person.
However, right now two adults can share a day pass on the weekend. How will this work after the change over? It sounds to me that this issue, plus the time based transfer issue, are potentially going to turn people away from the TTC.
Once the TTC is 100% on PRESTO, it should not be too difficult to change over from the current transfer policy to the time based policy used by almost all, if not all, other local transit systems that use PRESTO. I know the TTC is a bit different because of the subway, but once PRESTO is 100% implemented there is the option that only those who pay cash require a paper transfer (and perhaps those paying by credit or debit card depending on how the software for this works) and thus the self serve transfer machines at subway stations will essentially become irrelevant.
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And I thought I was being somewhat devious getting my 7-year old to tap on with a $0 fare to avoid the line at the attendant. Turns out I was being cutting-edge.
The solution for 12-year olds not having Presto cards is pretty simple – and very traditional. You simply jump the fare gates. It’s not like there could be any penalty for that!
Seriously though – they may want to think about this. Do we even need fare gates anymore. GO manages fine without them. Are they worth the huge expense?
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Surely this in uncommon.
Wasn’t there an incident, three or four months ago, where someone recorded some TTC staff beating up some riders over a simple fare dispute — one where the riders may have been genuinely innocent. And after this incident wasn’t there a policy change, where drivers and collectors were directed not to fight with passengers over fare disputes?
I haven’t seen any fare disputes, but a friend of mine has told me about multiple fare disputes she has seen. In one case she felt so sorry for the rider who came up short that she paid her fare for her.
If I was a TTC driver, and my “free” fare showed up as a taxable benefit on my T4 I would prefer to pay my own fare, and get extra pay. If wearing my jacket got me on for free, and it didn’t show up as a taxable benefit, I would prefer to stick with my uniform entitling me to a free fare.
Steve: It’s worth noting that many operators must travel from the office where they report to work to another location to take over their car or bus. Such travel is in uniform and an obvious job requirement, not a taxable benefit. Another example is that police are allowed to ride free even if not in uniform as the TTC considers this a safety asset. Of course posing as a police officer attracts a rather more severe penalty than posing as a TTC driver.
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Is the total elimination of tickets, tokens, and the existing day pass, monthly pass system really essential for Presto to be introduced?
Steve: No, but the TTC seems to be taking a hard line to avoid backsliding into an extended period of co-existence and support for “old” media.
With regard to the day pass — maybe there is no way the weekend family pass aspect of the day pass can be supported. But couldn’t there be a way to make you Presto be good all day for a fixed price? Couldn’t you make that one time payment online, before you left home the day you would benefit from a fixed fee for all day service?
Steve: The simpler way to implement this is to establish daily, weekly and monthly caps on the fares charged. This of course means that the back-end system must be keeping track of your usage and adjusting the total fare collected appropriately. As to load=and-go fares such as you describe, the Presto system today requires a 24-hour lead time (at least) for such info to percolate out into the field because the transaction is handled at the reader, not at a back-end system which can be updated instantaneously.
When I lived in Kitchener-Waterloo, far enough away that I had to take the bus every day, KW-Transit had two payment choices: cash or a monthly pass. I did the math and decided the pass was more expensive. But I ended up getting a pass anyhow. First, carrying around pockets full of change was wearing holes in the pockets of all my pants; second, carrying around pockets full of change turned out to be more expensive, because I found when I was working late, and I had a pocket full of change, I ended up succumbing to the temptation of dining at chez vending machine.
Surely there would be some provision for riders who only planned to make a single ride, without making them purchase a presto card? Okay, eventually, payment could be made with a bank-card, smart-phone, credit card. Presto cards can be registered, but they don’t have to be. All those other systems can be tracked, so, potentially big brother knows where you have been.
Steve: From time to time, the TTC refers to “cash”, but this seems to be mainly in regard to reloading cards, not providing one-shot fares. I think they are setting themselves up for some major problems with casual users when this goes live.
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Steve: This comment has been moved from another thread.
Should the TTC dump an already outdated system with never ending technical problems?
Steve: At the date of the article (November 2013), Presto was definitely outdated and having severe problems. The version the TTC is getting is much revised; indeed this was a requirement for the TTC accepting the system. Presto has been playing “catch up” with the capabilities of other fare card systems.
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It seems that recently they removed the expiry date on the Presto Card, so as long as it is not lost or stolen, it will work like an Oyster Card.
Steve: For the information of readers, here is the text from Presto’s FAQ:
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In other words, it is not necessarily a good idea then. If that occurs, I may end up using the TTC on the weekends and/or look at other alternatives if this occurs. For example, there are times when I would pick up a day pass for a friend and myself to save money on the weekend – however, I might end up walking more/make different plans or just take GO Transit if I am not going to save any money.
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This is awfully confusing! Various transit agencies, various transit modes, and various fare rates! Myself, I am going to continue to drop a loonie and a toonie into the farebox, and get a paper transfer, as long as it is possible. Can you pay cash on the new streetcars?
Too bad that I cannot fan ride the new UPX until either I get a Presto card or they lower their fares. I saw a UPX train heading into Pearson when I was southbound Hwy 427, as a passenger, we were side-by-side for nearly a minute, early Sunday evening, and it appeared to be totally empty.
I don’t get around to other cities that much, but I am very familiar with the system in Riga, Latvia. Whether you are on a bus, trolleybus, streetcar, LRV, or commuter train, you can pay either by cash on board from the driver or conductor (you get a receipt), or by prepaid transit card. Paying by transit card saves you 50% on the fare.
In Riga, there are no free transfers when changing vehicles, nor is there a subway. So that uncomplicates things as compared to Toronto. However, the fare on a bus, trolleybus, streetcar, or LRV is only 40 euro cents if paying by transit card. The fare on the commuter train is distance based, yet inexpensive compared to GO. The transit card can be purchased at any ubiquitous kiosk or convenience store or vending machine, there is no actual charge for the stiff paper card, it can be reloaded or tossed away after it is used up. Boarding a vehicle, you scan your card at one of the card readers and it both deducts the fare and it tells you how many fares are remaining. Your card is POP. Fares are enforced often after disembarking a vehicle, the fare inspector can check the card if it was validated on that vehicle, and the fines are very hefty. School-age kids, including high school, ride for free, no ID cards are necessary. Seniors do not get a special fare.
Oh, and instead of GO’s luxury coaches, they use convenient mini-buses running routes several times an hour to the outer suburbs and back to centre, and the mini-bus can deviate off-route to better service elderly passengers. You can flag one down, too. The fares are also distance-based. One time, a GO bus did actually go off-route 2 km. for me, because I have difficulty walking (shhh!), Thank You kind driver!
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I have a friend who loves contests, who noticed that MetroLinx gave away 1500 return passes, good for opening day. It is too late for you to go, but I took about 1500 pictures, and put them all online at flickr. I marked them CC, but I consider them public domain.
On the return leg we got off at the (barely) rebuilt Bloor GO station. There were signs up saying that later in June residents of that neighbourhood would be allowed to ride the UPX for free, as part of the official re-opening of that station. I am sorry I didn’t mention it, as you could have got your free round trip then.
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The electronic faregates are programmable to enable free-pass mode individually. This is often used during “free fare” events but also can be used to let in a large group like a classroom of kids led by a teacher.
Presumably, there’ll be arrangements added to the system eventually. Let’s hope TTC recognizes these circumstances.
Steve: And as an update, at today’s Metrolinx meeting, the date for open payments is now 2017, not 2018.
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Seems to me like Presto is the one to gain for this conversion, with the province recouping some of the money they shell out to the TTC. I get it, times are tough but is Presto at least covering the costs of conversion? If I were the TTC. I would ask for money to go through with the implementation above the conversion cost.
They mention a 2.5% reduction in fare handling cost. What is that in proportion to the TTC operating budget. Is there really any benefit to Presto? It does not look like cross boundary transit will become cheaper. Unless Metrolinx money will be used to subsidize multi system trips in which case it might actually be worth the hassle.
If they presented this for what it is (a cost saving measure for the _province_) instead of playing up alleged benefits. I’d be less upset.
Steve: The reduction in cost is relative to the entire budget, not just in the cost of fare collection.
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One thing that has been bugging me for a while is the absence of wayside fare machines on all routes not 509 and 510.
Queen and King are in theory POP but no off board fare machines are available anywhere on the route which significantly reduces the speed advantage of all door boarding. On board Presto certainly isn’t a prerequisite to having these out on the street and reaping the benefits. Users using tokens or cash could be taking advantage of them now.
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Speaking of new fare media, it looks like the TTC is going to trial a smartphone based e-ticketing solution. This solution seems to be well tested (e.g. MBTA, DART) and I think that it would be a nice complement to Presto should we still have teething pains getting Presto running. It just seems surprising that the TTC was so hush hush about this little side project when this would be the sort of project that would be very big news.
The only bad thing about this is that it is only for day passes, when other systems allow for multiple kinds of passes (weekly, monthly, paying for two or more people).
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Hmm.
Am I correct that Presto (and presumably Oyster and similar cards) use RFID technology?
What technology would a smartphone payment system use?
I have a buddy who has used her Presto card to pay for travel on GO and other 905 transit systems. She has had trips on GO, and maybe other distance based systems, where she was charged for a trip all the way to the end of the line, because she forgot to tap her Presto card, a second time, where she actually got off.
Potentially, could a smartphone based system be smart enough to eliminate the need to “tap off”, because the app could let the various transit systems track the rider, so long as they remained on the transit systems’ property?
On the one hand I like that Presto riders, who want to protect their privacy, can carry a Presto card that they kept unregistered.
A year or so ago there was a bit of coverage of secret experiments Canadian Security Officials had been conducting at Pearson. They tracked (some) arriving passengers, using their cell phone, as they left Pearson, and traveled through Toronto. Kind of creepy, since they kept it secret. The experiment probably violated privacy legislation as well.
But would passengers agree to a system that used one’s smart phone to keep track of which vehicles the rider transferred to, and where they actually got off — provided transit agencies took steps to protect the privacy of this information? (Should transit officials require a warrant, to prevent fishing expeditions, when Police think a suspect traveled to or from a crime scene on public transit.)
Steve: We have had this discussion here before. If the security services want to track someone, they have lots of ways of doing this, of which transit cards (or apps) are only one. That horse left the barn a long time ago. Even an “unregistered” card has its limitations — all that is needed is that one transaction using it is recorded (say on a TV monitor) and, voila, that card and its bearer are linked. Further out, the Presto card as such will gradually disappear as the functionality is taken over by credit/debit cards and smartphone apps.
Yes, the technology is RFID. From a surveillance point of view, remember that these devices can be detected at a longer range than the Presto readers which are set up deliberately to require close proximity. “Rogue” readers could be used to acquire card info without an actual tap.
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