67 thoughts on “Queens Quay Reconstruction 2014 (Updated August 21, 2014)”

1. David Weil said:

   As the poles started to go up, they matched my expectations – they are thicker, taller and more heavily/sturdily mounted than most of the usual poles that hold up spanning wires on downtown streets.

   But in the last week several poles have gone up on the north side of the ROW as well – is there going to be a double row of those very large poles all the way down Queens Quay? If so, that would explain why the TTC is saying it won’t be ready for an August opening; if they’re only putting up a single row of poles they’re about half done, but if a double row of poles is going up they won’t be nearly completed in time.

   Steve said:

   As a design issue, I was surprised that the TTC is using its own separate poles on the right of way rather than stringing overhead from the lighting poles as this just adds to visual clutter. However, we’ve been down that path before on St. Clair, and at least on Queens Quay, we don’t have centre poles.

   Moaz: is the double row of poles that David is describing on both sides of the ROW or alternating from one side to the other? It does seem strange to have a double row of poles running all the way along Queen’s Quay.

   St. Clair has the unfortunate centre poles but at intersections the overhead is strung from poles set to one side of the ROW. I presume that this is to open up the intersection for large vehicles that might want to use the ROW (fire trucks and possibly buses). It looks much better.

   Cheers, Moaz

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2. Regarding the CLRVs / ALRVs, there’s probably some museum which will manage to keep a couple of them working (perhaps with some systems cut out), and the rest will be scrapped.

   Nobody wants them for regular service. The lack of level-boarding is a deal-breaker pretty much everywhere. There’s an equivalent of the ODA / ADA / DDA in pretty nearly every country in the world now. Apparently Argentina, which just bought the old trolleys from San Diego, is willing to mess around with high-floor trolleys with wheelchair lifts — but the CLRVs/ALRVs don’t even have lifts. There’s a standard lift retrofit for PCCs because there were so many out there, but a custom one would be needed for these cars…

   The CLRVs/ALRVs are also a non-standard track gauge, which increases the costs of reuse elsewhere. Honestly, they’re one of the least reusable rail vehicles rolling. Most rail vehicles have a long “afterlife”, but nobody will want these.

   Steve: Speaking of gauge, one advantage of the PCCs was that they were designed for systems with different gauges, and ran on everything from Pennsylvania broad gauge down to metre gauge (although obviously the latter would be with trucks specific for that quite narrow gauge). Three CLRVs did run in Boston, and so must not have been difficult to regauge for that test.

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3. I went down Queens Quay today. I think those double rows of poles are to hold up the lights for the westbound streetcar platforms.

   Steve: I will visit and photograph later in the week.

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4. There is a baffling amount of pole clutter, concentrated at Spadina and Queens Quay but extending all the way to Bay Street. There are wooden poles, concrete poles, and now new black steel ones courtesy of the TTC. Make that 4 kinds if you include the stainless steel ones at the Bay Street portal. It’s a real shame. Why didn’t Waterfront Toronto have one set of poles lining the outside edge of the road, shared by the TTC? Or is the design dictated by the future planting of trees? In any case, it’s a real dogs breakfast right now.

   Steve: I believe that the final plan is to have the silver street lighting poles along the sides (some are already in place), and the black TTC ones along the right-of-way. Of course one set would have been enough, but the TTC and hydro seem to be having a tiff these days about pole sharing, and so we get two sets. There will also be smaller poles for some traffic signals at intersections. Yes, we are doing this beautiful redesign and it’s compromised by the utilities.

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5. It is my understanding that poles at Spadina and the loop will hold streetlight fixtures and traffic head fixtures as well, there will be very few single streetlight or traffic signal poles.

   Poles on the north of the ROW are locally at the platforms and the portal entrance and west of Spadina.

   Those silver steel poles are temporary to be replaced by wood poles.

   Streetlight poles on the south will be in line with the new TTC poles while at the north will be in the granite boulevard.

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6. Re: Surplus CLRV

   I loved the PCC cars. I am glad the TTC keeps two in service. Actually, just two PCC does not seem like enough. I would have kept at least half a dozen. I was a teenager when the CLRV were introduced. I still think of them as the “new streetcars”. There were no source of replacement streetcars in the early 1970s, and I think authorities hoped some of the US cities like Boston and Philadelphia would buy the UTDC vehicles. No one did buy them. But weren’t the Canadian vehicles much more successful than the made in America vehicles that US cities first tried to use as replacements for their PCCs? Didn’t both Boston and Philadelphia have retire the first set of new vehicles they tried after only a decade or so of poor performance.

   Problems with the CLRV’s pneumatic lines helped show their age last winter. But am I wrong that Toronto got its money’s worth out of these vehicles, as Boston and Philadelphia did not?

   Steve: The problem in the USA was that after the end of the Viet Nam War, the aircraft industry turned to transit as a new source of government largesse, but they didn’t understand the environment transit vehicles run in. Also, in Boston there were problems with specs for cars that didn’t even match the requirements of the system they were built for. Even the CLRVs suffered from some design and specification problems, and these vehicles never matched the reliability achieved by PCCs in their prime. But, yes, our cars did last, in part because the TTC made sure that they did.

   I have a strong affection for the CLRV, and would like to see the TTC operate some as legacy vehicles. But, if I understood the comparison between their electronics and the Commodore PET, it sounds like they would be harder to keep in service than the legacy PCCs — which didn’t rely on any solid-state electronics.

   Some decades ago I worked in computer support role at a University, where some of the older professors had old TRS-80s, Commodore PETS, and Apple ][ computers sitting in a corner of their labs, that they had once used to run their experiments. Every few years they would need to boot up the obsolete computers, because they needed them to review data on the old obsolete floppy disks, that had the results of those old experiments. The older technician to whom this task fell told me that although it could be very difficult to boot the Radio Shack and Commodore computers the old Apple ][ computers continued to be reliable decades after they were manufactured.

   Steve: If you want to read about old technology, visit the Computer History Museum’s website. They have one of the first machines I ever programmed back in the early 60s in high school.

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7. The stretch of Queens Quay West between the portal near the foot of Bay Street westward to Yo Yo Ma Lane is getting closer to completion, with new streetcar tracks being built. Over the past two years, the TTC has been running buses on its “509 Harbourfront” route, which could easily navigate through this construction zone and be diverted and rerouted. It’s coming up for the anniversary – July 29, 2012 – when streetcars on that route were replaced with buses.

   When the track work is finally completed, streetcars on the “509 Harbourfront” and “510 Spadina” route will be returning to Queens Quay, and would include the new LFLRVs. People travelling to Harbourfront Centre and/or the Island Ferry Docks will likely be breathing a sigh of relief, as they will be making fewer transfers (from streetcars to “509 Harbourfront” buses and vise-versa) – they’ve been patient through the months of construction. When arriving at their destination, they’ll be seeing a new-look Queens Quay West.

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8. Wow, I count 18 streetcar poles in that shot from QQ and Spadina alone.

   At least the delay in returning streetcars to QQ makes a bit more sense now. By directing traffic over the tracks, the crews are able to excavate both the north roadway and south MGT at the same time, expediting overall construction. Once the roadway is complete, then they’ll do the traffic shift and free up the tracks for streetcar use.

   Or perhaps I’m crediting WT and the TTC with too much planning and coordination …
   
   Steve: There is a lot of kvetching on both sides about scheduling, although I tend to sympathize more with Waterfront Toronto as it is actually their project. That said, they have more than once advertised optimistic dates in their weekly updates, usually because of external factors.

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9. Work on the “home stretch” of TTC streetcar track, between the foot of Spadina Avenue and Yo Yo Ma Lane, is under way, and construction workers are rushing to get the job done, sometimes working weekends and/or at night-time. It won’t be long before the “509 Harbourfront” route (which is Toronto’s youngest and shortest streetcar route), has been using shuttle buses for the past two years, welcomes back its streetcars (they will likely be CLRVs).

   Also, the sidewalks of Queens Quay West are slowly being transformed, as the old concrete (which has in recent years shows wear and tear) is being broken up with machines, being replaced with tiny red mosaic stones. The sidewalk has a maple leaf motif on the south side of Queens Quay West, between York Street to Yo Yo Ma lane.

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10. Too bad Toronto will continue to use streetcar loops with its new single-ended streetcars. If they had decided to switch to double-ended streetcars, they could have put in temporary crossovers, like in Melbourne.

    Steve: There is a big difference with single track running on reserved lanes and trying to do this in the middle of a street. On Queens Quay, the whole street is being rebuilt, not just the streetcar track, and so this “solution” would have been utterly unworkable.

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11. The construction of TTC track on Queens Quay between Spadina Avenue and Yo Yo Ma Lane is under way, to connect with existing streetcar tracks between Yo Yo Ma Lane and the intersection of Bathurst and Fleet Streets. First comes the removal of asphalt and the preparation of rail bed in the middle lanes of the road. The next step is laying down the rails, then pouring the concrete between them. The TTC will continue to run shuttle buses on the “509 Harbourfront” route until this work and the rest of Queens Quay West. Streetcars are scheduled to return to this route on October 12th, during Thanksgiving weekend.

    Steve: Yup, that’s the status, already reported here.

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12. Not to belabour and bemoan the point too much (last time, I promise), but there are 37 TTC poles in total in and around the Spadina loop. 37! I sure hope there wasn’t a less visually appalling way to set up the loop, that they cheaper out on for cost.

    The previous loop didn’t have so many poles, did it?

    Steve: No it did not. I am baffled by the complexity of the installation myself considering how few poles are needed for grand unions like King & Spadina. That said, the “loop” is really three intersections, although two are fairly simple.

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13. Steve:

    No it did not. I am baffled by the complexity of the installation myself considering how few poles are needed for grand unions like King & Spadina. That said, the “loop” is really three intersections, although two are fairly simple.

    I think that the overhead crew saw that art at Weston and Eglinton with all the street lights on the corner and decided to have one of their own at Queens Quay Loop. Now if they could only get one example of every type of pole ever used for overhead. My favourite was at Lansdowne and Bloor, NE corner if I remember correctly. Perhaps they could also use a different manhole cover for each installation in the area.

    I won’t go into making Union Station a urinal museum.

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14. I am planning to ride a new light rail vehicle on August 31st, if this deadline doesn’t slip. Am I likely to run into any of the rest of you?

    Steve, from the comments above am I correct that the new Union Station loop(s) are supposed to be finished by August 31? You wrote about the need to modify Spadina, so it could hold two of the longer vehicles. Is that loop also scheduled to be finished?

    I wonder how much more it would have cost to extend the line up Bay so the streetcar platforms terminated a level below the subway platform? Maybe the pilings the subways rest on would have been in the way?

    Steve: Union Loop is not needed until October when service to Queens Quay resumes. Spadina Loop is needed at the end of August, and so that one must be finished (ideally it should be done early for testing). As for extending the Harbourfront route up Bay, you have your geometry all wrong. The streetcar loop is at the same level as the subway track — there will be a direct transfer from the new northbound-to-Yonge platform into the existing loop. Going under the subway is not only extremely expensive (and you still need a loop for the single-ended cars) but physically impossible.

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15. Some fun to be had with Google Maps – streetview is out of synch. When travelling along QQ between Jarvis and Spadina, you’ll see images dating from April 2009-June 2013, depending on your location and direction of travel. Satellite view/Google Earth seem to have landed after completion of the wave decks and prior to major reconstruction.

    Fortunately for anyone actually hoping to use Google to find directions, it has correctly identified the MGT as merely “planned” and that QQ itself is one-way westbound.

    The juxtaposition of images and information really makes you realize just how huge a project this has been.

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16. Just passed by the west end of construction and in two places they have severed the westbound track (still attached to the ties) and placed it on top of the eastbound track. One of those sections was the westernmost piece, and I think the other was the easternmost piece. Not sure what they were doing as it was nighttime and didn’t get a good look. I hope they haven’t encountered another issue in that area that will cause further delay.

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17. Any photos of the mysterious poles mentioned earlier in the comments thread?

    Cheers, Moaz

    Steve: This requires some work and explanation. Some poles hold span wires while others are the end-points for pull-offs where the wire for a curve “ends” at a frog, but continues for structural reasons to a pole diagonally in line with the approach to the frog. Now that the intersection isn’t always full of overhead trucks, I can go back there to photograph the details.

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18. I don’t think the new streetcars have ever been tested on Union Loop trackage. There’s no way they could have, but correct me if I’m wrong. But hope all goes well when it reopens.

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19. I was on QQ today and it seems that virtually all the TTC poles are up between Spadina and Bay and they have started working on the ‘hangers” at the Spadina end. I was pleased to see that, after the ‘pole forest’ at Spadina Loop, the overhead will be suspended from single poles, on the Martin Goodman Trail side of the ROW.

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20. It won’t be long before streetcars return to the “509 Harbourfront” route (Thanksgiving weekend). By that time, these shuttle buses, which served the route for 26 months will be gone. However, there’s more work to be done over the next year. The north side of Queens Quay between Bay Street and Spadina Avenue (or is it Yo Yo Ma Lane). The TTC tracks are almost ready for streetcars, which make their return during Labour Day long weekend (“510 Spadina” route). The north side of Queens Quay will become roadway for motor vehicles, and is being asphalted. On both sides of Queens Quay, the remains of the concrete sidewalks will be broken up with machinery, and gradually be replaced with a walkway made with little red granite tiles replacing the remaining concrete sidewalks.

    Steve: Actually, much of the sidewalk on both sides of Queens Quay has already been replaced with the granite pavers. Work is now underway on building the new Martin Goodman Trail along the south side as well as the infrastructure for the rows of trees that will be planted next year.

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21. I’ve been riding the 509 bus fairly frequently now that the 510 is running down to Queen’s Quay – as a quick update, the track west from Spadina to Yo Yo Ma appears to be complete and the concrete has been poured and cured. Track is now continuous from the Bay/York Portal to the CNE loop – they’ve connected the old and new segments at Yo Yo Ma.

    Steve, I heard a report one of these days that 509/510 service along Queen’s Quay from Union to Spadina will reopen on October 12th, but that for some reason the segment from Spadina to Bathurst will not open until November. That doesn’t sound right given that the track is complete … have you heard anything about this, or should it all open on the 12th?

    Steve: According to the schedule change notice for October, the 509 route returns all the way from Union to the CNE.

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22. The TTC track work on Queens Quay West is nearly ready for streetcars when they return Thanksgiving weekend. Most of the poles are up – there’s a few more to go – on the sides of the stretch of track between the foot of Spadina Avenue westward to Yo Yo Ma Lane. The next step is the installation of overhead wires which supply the electricity for operating the streetcars when they return. In the mean time, people travelling to the central waterfront will continue to be riding the shuttle buses on the “509 Harbourfront” route.

    To the north of the new streetcar tracks, asphalting of the road continues. To the south side of the tracks, a new trail for bicycle riding and inline skating is being built.

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23. For anyone interested and still reading comments this far back who hasn’t made their way down in the past few days, I was walking along Queen’s Quay today and I have some updates to share:

    The road (westbound only, still) has been paved completely from Bay to Lower Spadina. Traffic is now entirely on-road, and public vehicles are no longer driving on the TTC ROW. On the west side of the Lower Spadina/Queen’s Quay intersection, for a few short metres traffic shifts back onto the ROW before sharply going back to the proper road–presumably this short final section will be completed in the next few days.

    Platforms and Shelters are almost complete. The only one remaining to be built is Westbound at Lower Spadina farside for the 509 (on Queen’s Quay, past where the 510 turns north onto Spadina) – pending traffic being shifted back off the ROW there. The completed ones are: westbound – York farside, Rees farside, Lower Spadina northbound 510 farside (on Spadina); eastbound – Lower Spadina farside, Rees nearside, Simcoe-York (this one is roughly halfway between the two intersections, maybe a little bit closer to York – I guess there’ll be a stop sign along the Martin Goodman Trail and a lot of prayers that cyclists will stop for disembarked passengers trying to get across to the south side sidewalk?). Noticeably missing (not incomplete, as far as I can tell, but simply not present) are stops either direction at Simcoe or an eastbound stop on the east side of york – I guess they played around with the York-Simcoe stop spacing.

    Overhead: I actually quite like these cantilevered poles! Poles are in place all the way from the portal to the merge at Yo Yo Ma. The overhead lines themselves are about 50% complete: the westbound overhead wire was strung coming up out of the Bay portal (as deep as I could see into it), all the way continuously to Lower Spadina, temporarily interrupted west of Spadina to west of Yo Yo Ma. Eastbound begins at Lower Spadina, naturally, due to the 510Q having been in service for nearly a month, and now extends past the Eastbound-to-Northbound turn into the loop onto the Peter Slip bridge where it ends (a bit farther east than where it was strung recently). To my untrained eye it looks like the Eastbound wiring from the Peter Slip bridge to the portal will be completed soon as well based on some wire hangers/connectors coiled up on the poles.

    Union loop: for any of you who have seen the glass doors on the new (Northbound to Finch) platform, they have taken off the construction paper and you can now see into the waiting area/platform/loop, which looks fairly neat and tidy (previous tiny glimpses included lots of scattered equipment and dust). I’m not sure if they will reinstate a stairwell from the concourse level directly to the 509/510 platform or if the only access will be by walking through the Finch platform. Certainly the transfer for those getting on/off that train looks brilliantly easy.

    The latest states that the TTC will begin testing streetcars along Queen’s Quay starting the week of October 6! Terrifically exciting – hopefully we’ll get some nice pictures of the LFLRV running down there that week. They did specifically mention they’re only going to be running the test cars between Union and Lower Spadina loop at that time – omitting the new stretch from Spadina-Yo Yo Ma and the connection to the existing track going through to Bathurst/Fleet. Not sure about whether that’s the TTC’s omission from testing or just WFT’s omission from the notice, or the reason for it. Odd…

    I’m curious to hear whether on October 12th Queen’s Quay will also reopen to eastbound traffic or remain westbound-only with the extra lane for a longer period.

    Steve: I was there on Friday, and even in one day there has been a lot of progress, and although the pavement was completed west of Rees, the traffic was still on the streetcar tracks. The right-of-way was so cluttered with vans and material from every contractor that I gave up taking any reasonable photos of “partly completed” work. I will return early next week and will start a new thread leading to the opening of the line.

    The construction status updates you linked are an excellent source of info on the week-by-week progress. Sometimes they get a little ahead of themselves because of unexpected problems or weather delays, but the info is all in one place.

    I believe that the bi-directional traffic will not return to Queens Quay until a later stage in the project.

    The York and Simcoe stops have been consolidated between the two intersections. Details are in the approved design. Note that things have changed somewhat since this was approved in 2009.

    I am trying to track down a detailed map of what is actually being built, but Waterfront Toronto’s site is strangely silent on this.

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24. Today, I was walking along Queens Quay West near Lower Simcoe, and I noticed more progress, as I headed to the docks to take the ferry over to Centre Island.

    There are new cantilevered streetcar poles running westward from the portal near the foot of Bay Street (close to the Island ferry docks) all the way to Lower Spadina Avenue. There’s more of these (cantilevered) poles to come, running further westward to Yo Yo Ma Lane, where T-bar poles take over. They’ve been hooked up with new overhead electrical wires. It won’t be long until streetcars return to the “509 Harbourfront” route, which has been served by shuttle buses for the past two years – since July 29, 2012, before construction began.

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25. Visitors to Harbourfront, Island Ferry Docks, welcome return of streetcars to Queens Quay West:

    Throughought 2012, the TTC was gradually taking streetcars off of Queens Quay West, which then was in rough shape. Beginning in early June, streetcars on the main branch of the 510 Spadina route to Union Station were gone (only the two other branches of the route operated – “510 Spadina” to Queens Quay & Spadina and an even shorter branch only going as far south as King Street) were removed. In fact, streetcars on the entire “510 Spadina” route were replaced with buses after Victoria Day weekend until November 17, 2012 – the reason being track work. However, streetcars on the “509 Harbourfront ” route would stick around on Queens Quay West longer, until they were eventually replaced with a curbside bus service on July 29th, 2012. This would leave people travelling by TTC to Harbourfront Centre and/or the Island Ferry Docks scrambling to fand alternate routes. Many diehard streetcar stavellers switched to the “511 Bathurst” streetcar combined with the “509 Harbourfront” streetcar (a few weeks later a shuttle bus on this route).

    With the return of streetcars to the “509 Harbourfront” and the main branch of the “510 Spadina” route (to Union Station), stopping at Queens Quay and Lower Simcoe. Me and many people travelling to Harbourfront Centre would save time getting there, making fewer transfers, as the “510 Spadina” streetcar to Union Station (via Queens Quay West) would be stopping at Lower Simcoe.

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26. Yesterday, I travelled to Harbourfront Centre – I took the “510 Spadina” streetcar to Union Station, getting off at Queens Quay West and Lower Simcoe Street. There are some new pedestrian crossings with traffic lights, and new transit shelters. Streetcars made a welcome return to Queens Quay West, on newly rebuilt tracks. There’s no longer a need for people heading to Harbourfront and/or Island Ferry Docks to make transfers from one streetcar to another (or from a streetcar to a shuttle bus). Gone are the shuttle buses which have been running on the “509 Harbourfront” route for more than two years (July 29, 2012 – October 11, 2014).

    Many of those buses (which have been used on “509 Harbourfront”) have been redeployed to the “511 Bathurst” route, which there’s TTC track repair work which will begin soon between College Street and Queen Street West, beginning October 20; the TTC took streetcars off that route yesterday and replaced them with a curbside bus service; there will be route diversions. During the years of Queens Quay track construction (even befor this – as early as June 2012), I’ve continued to travel to Harbourfront Centre – which remained open for business. I was using a combination the “511 Bathurst” (streetcar) and “509 Harbourfront” (first streetcar and later shuttle bus) routes. Throughout this period, I ‘watched’ the demolition of the old streetcar tracks, the asphalting over of Queens Quay West, the installation of new utility and sewage pipes, and later the building of the new tracks.

    There’s still a lot of work to be done on Queens Quay West – to the south side of the streetcar tracks. What remains of the old concrete sidewalks are being broken up by machinery, and tiny little red blocks replacing this. Also, planters for trees.

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27. Now that the construction on the Queens Quay West tracks has been completed (along with transit shelters) and streetcars have been running on them since Sunday of the Thanksgiving weekend, what construction is yet to be done? Most of it is on the south side of Queens Quay West, between the foot of Bay Street (near Island Ferry Docks) westward to Yo Yo Ma Lane. There’s the planters for new trees and a new recreation and pedestrian trail.

    By next summer (when Toronto hosts the Pan/Parapan American Games), the construction on the waterfront will finally be completed, with new trees planted and a new recreation and pedestrian promenade. Also next year, the Word on the Street festival, which happens on a Sunday during the month of September, moves from its current venue (Queens Park) down to a new one – Harbourfront Centre. This will be one more festival taking place on the waterfront.

    Steve: What remains is the completion of the Martin Goodman Trail and the pedestrian area, plus some utility work still in progress at Rees/Robertson. Once everything is finished on the construction side of things, the new road must be reconfigured for two-way operation. This is a matter of paint, signalling and signage, and probably won’t happen until sometime in 2015.

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