The hoarder is guaranteed a return on invenstment equal to the fare increase for each token they collect, plus if tokens run out they will have the opportunity to use them in December to save 50 cents over the cash fare. Hoarding tokens is pretty much the best investment out there, certainly beating the stock market and what-not.

For these reasons I carry tokens in case I need them, but still buy 5 every time I ride the subway. Unfortunately this does not work for people who cannot afford to hoard tokens, or who do not normally board at a subway station .. but any inequity is the TTC’s fault as they designed the fare system this way.

Just another reason to introduce a smart card instead of using antiquated tokens. People from other countries laugh when they use TTC tokens for the first time. It’s sad we still have them.

Steve: TTC has monthly and annual (subscription) passes for Senior too. Given the proportion of all fares paid by cash by the various concession groups, I don’t think this is going to raise buckets of money. Moreover, it’s a one-time fix just as the rise several years ago in student/senior pricing relative to adult fares was.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t most spending on roads done by provincial and municipal governments? I don’t have any figures to hand, but I bet the total spending on Canada’s roads is more than $4.7bn. Also, money flows from the federal goverment downward… and again, I bet the amount that goes downward is more than $4.7bn.

Overall, I suspect that total spending on Canada’s roads is more than the amount received through the gas tax. I admit this is my instinct, so feel free to provide figures that prove me wrong (or right!).

Of course, there is question of whether users or the general populace should pay for transport, but that’s anotheer question entirely.

This year [2003] Canadian motorists are paying, on average, between 35 and 47% taxes at the pumps,” stated CTF British Columbia director Victor Vrsnik. The federal government raked in $4.7 billion last year in fuel taxes, but spent only $119 million [...] on roads.

From a 2007 article on John Tory:

Tory promised that, by the end of five years, he will spend all of the $3.14-billion raised by provincial gas and fuel taxes on highways and transit. He said that amount exceeds current Liberal spending on such projects by about $1-billion.
[...]
Tory noted that gas tax money goes into the general revenue pot, and Queen’s Park spends only part of that revenue on transportation infrastructure.

Also note that in 1997-1998 the province downloaded care for dozens, maybe hundreds of highways to local municipalities.

Steve: Tory’s promises are one thing, but if he is going to shift all of that money over to transportation, he will have to replace the revenue elsewhere in the budget, or stop funding whatever it is paying for.

The people who object to a tax increase for transit usually have no problem with spending on their roads. But don’t you dare suggest that their use of the roads is subsidized. If the operating, maintenance and construction charges were “funded at the same level as the TTC they would be paying a lot of tolls. I know they are going to scream that their “Gas Tax” covers that but driving has other hidden expenses in health costs, lost return from a more beneficial use of land that would pay property taxes etc. Let’s get them to agree that roads and transit should be subsidized and taxed at the same level. I bet they will be surprised when the road toll bill comes in.

“Tokens sold at machines will be limited to one per customer. There is no limit for TTC ticket sales, Nicholson said. ”

Aside from students, children and seniors does the TTC still sell tickets? I don’t get into Toronto that often and use a day pass when I do but I thought adult tickets were abolished to stop counterfeiting. Did Nicholson not read that memo.

On the other hand, they may go down the GO Transit route and introduce a loyalty scheme of some sort, to ensure no-one ever gets ‘free’ rides (goodbye Metropass!).

Steve, is there any chance you could do a post about GO’s loyalty scheme, and whether or not TTC (and other transit providers) should do something similar?

Steve: GO’s fare structure as described on the linked page is very much oriented to weekday commuting. Basically, it tops out at 40 fares and charges only a tiny additional amount beyond that point. GO doesn’t run the kind of service that would encourage ad hoc trips within a day, or even a burst of travel within one week, but they need to think that through as they move toward frequent all-day service.

In Montreal, the new OPUS card was well-received because the financing was put into place to guarantee that local systems would keep their revenue. That extra money didn’t come out of the air, but as extra subsidies. If Metrolinx isn’t willing to talk about that sort of arrangement, it doesn’t matter how you organize the operation of service, you will have to deal with the problem that those who now use multiple systems pay more than they likely will in an integrated environment. GO’s rail service, once truly integrated in the fare structure (even with a premium), will have to deal with the demand issues of new riding patterns.

Maybe it’s just me, but I think that if the TTC had proposed fares that were 5% higher (or a bit more) than what is currently proposed but with 2 hour transfers, the increase would go over a lot better.

Steve: I agree, but we will inevitably hear about how the freeloaders are wrecking the system. I am really getting tired of the staff spinning policy rather than presenting options for political decisions.

It’s bad enough that unlike transit systems in cities I’ve visited such as Vancouver, Seattle, San Francisco and AC Transit, the TTC doesn’t offer timed (2 to 2.5 hour, any direction) which means at least 2 fares for a round trip of 2 hour or less, but then token restrictions brought on through propose fare hikes just makes those trips potentially even more expensive. I know some of this is due to the paltry subsidies the TTC gets for senior levels of government, but still, I have to wonder over why it gets yet more expensive. Motorists rarely factor in other costs to operating their car, looking over a cost of gas, so hiking fares certainly only encourages those with cars to consider driving over transit, especially when they feel the car is already faster and more convenient (unless one is driving downtown ). Of course service cuts have an even greater impact.

Interestingly, the other day on CBC’s Metro Morning, I heard their daily business commentator suggest that the TTC should be free, with the City capturing the cost through property tax – he argued the TTC was infrastructure, much like roads or sidewalks and with no need to collect fares, there would be savings in operating costs. Must say the idea sounded like a non-starter, especially in the transit is largely seen as a service, thus “fee for service”. However I do know Seattle did have a free fare zone where all trips within the zone were free – only if one travelled outside the zone would a fare be collected. The idea was obviously to encourage transit use.

Phil

Steve: The TTC loves to paint a timed fare as “too expensive”, but we learned recently that the estimated annual loss in revenue would be $15-20 million. That’s not a vast amount of money in the overall scheme of TTC finances. Even if the cost were picked up entirely from the farebox, this represents well under 5% of the total farebox revenue (over $800m in 2009). Would riders pay a higher fare for this type of limited-time ride-at-will arrangement? Has anyone asked them? Has the TTC ever offered this among a package of fare options for public debate?

“The one-token-only restriction is at auto entrances where there isn’t a collector. Other machines allow for bulk purchases.”

If one can purchase tokens in bulk from the machines, how will the limit of 5 @ a collectors booth help??

Steve: Look on the bright side. By the time Transit City lines are running, there will be double-ended LRVs, pantographs and smart cards.

And will these necessarily be better? Time will tell…. double-ended LRVs at infrequent headways, pantographs with inevitable overhead problems and smart cards that make pass holders swipe or tap every time. Are those really an improvement? I might throw my lot in with the single-ended streetcars, trolley poles and metal tokens.

“The TTC has 40 million tokens. About 10 million are in general circulation, with another 15 million in the hands of the public. The rest are warehoused. Each day, 600,000 tokens come into the system and 400,000 are packaged and recirculated.”

Presumably “general circulation” means at TTC booths and agents, ready to be purchased by riders. This means there are 15 million in storage. I am not sure what the discrepancy is between the 600k and 400k numbers.

Steve: I believe they are releasing 600k tokens from inventory, and 400k are used as fares and come back into the system. By implication, there are 15m tokens still in the warehouse. If 3m are required each week (600k per day for 5 weekdays), that will last until mid-December, and that’s with restrictions on the number people can buy.

If all 40m tokens are out in the public’s hands when the fares go up, they will be worth $10-million more than today. That’s part of the cost of doing business, from my point of view.

What would make the most sense is for a third party to own the Smart card equipment and tracking mechanism, and then lease the equipment to the TTC and various other members of the Metrolinx family transit agencies, for a commission. Say for example the third party charges a 3% commission per fare. TTC currently charges $2.75 so the company would charge 8¼¢ per fare in commission. The equipment leased would be that which is used to verify the fare, the TTC would allow that company a small space in stations for card issuing and renewals.

I like the idea of maximums, for daily, weekly, monthly, that someone else posted. Shouldn’t be hard to do. Another option, would be the company that runs the system would have a web site, putting in your card number would allow you to examine and print out a transaction page and tax receipt.

Steve: It’s hard to compare implementations from city to city. In some cases such as London, there was an overriding need to replace an antique fare collection system. Some costs would have been incurred whether or not smart cards came as part of the package.

As for leasing, using your model, 3% of today’s $900m revenue stream is $27m. If TTC figures are to be believed, the cost of operating and maintaining the system, never mind financing the installation, would eat up a considerable chunk of that.

Calvin – very good explanation of the Smart Card Fare caps. In London – using my Oyster Card several times a day – I “beat” the fare caps on a number of occasions. It gave me enormous pleasure to visit the monitors in the Tube Stations and see all my “free” rides listed. In Toronto, I don’t need to commute by TTC (work at home and occasionally have to drive to Mississauga). I don’t keep track of whether or not I make a “profit” on my MetroPass. I just have one so I can access “Transit on Demand” without hassle. However, in London, I sure did revel in those electronically tracked “free” trips.

Steve: Look on the bright side. By the time Transit City lines are running, there will be double-ended LRVs, pantographs and smart cards.

I had a half-dozen tokens in my wallet this morning. Normally, this would mean that I would try to remember to buy tokens in the next day or two. But today the TTC is rationing tokens, and I know that this means that at some point in the next couple of weeks I will be unable to buy tokens when I need them. So I took four tens and fed them into the token machine, and I will continue to buy tokens every time it’s convenient. My wife will do the same.

So, in its wisdom, the TTC has provoked me into exactly the kind of behaviour it’s trying to prevent. It’s not about trying to save money after the fare hike, it’s about not wanting to have to pay the cash fare… and often have to wait in line for the privilege.

You’ll get one token (if there are any left) and $17.75 in change. Fun eh?

I did just this thing this morning.
Got 8 tokens and 2 loonies.

Plan to do the same time again tomorrow morning.

Don’t worry, I am always polite to TTC operators. My point was that it is unreasonable to expect people to have exact change or be able to enter the system at a subway station where they can get change for a single fare.

What happens to supplies for authorized TTC sales agents like convenience stores during ‘embargo periods’?

Steve: I suspect that the supplies will dry up as the number of tokens in circulation falls.